Dux, on 02 July 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:
If Russia recognized titles of nobility in pretense, what title would you hold? Not that it quite matters, as the Romanoff Imperial House is the only one that matters in regards to Russia. I suppose you would be one of the princely families of Rurik descent and probably one of those who have lost their titles or let them lie in abeyance; though possibly of a cadet branch of the House. Russia, as I recall, used and still uses Agnatic primogeniture rather than Uterine primogeniture, and thus your claim to nobility -even if you are of the House of Rurik- is rather shaky and I would be surprised were you entitled to anything other than a courtesy title. Age has nothing to do with it, either. The Napoleonic King of Rome was I believe crowned as an infant; so if you're looking for a way to weasel out of your claim, that will not save you.
Well, the most detailed bloodline stems from this character:
Note that it states this:
In the later 17th century, when the Velvet Book was being compiled by the Russian aristocracy, the Lopukhins, Ushakovs, and several other noble families, seeking for illustrious pedigrees, asserted their descent from Mstislav's postulated son Roman, who was allegedly married to Rededya's daughter. This fable has been repeated in numerous genealogical compilations of later date. Other version states that Mstislav had a daughter Tatyana who married Rededya's son Roman.
A noteworthy biographer of one of my relatives claims this account is actually a fact, that we are related to this Tatyana character. Our family tree is well-detailed and my relative in Canada, a professor, is writing a book on the subject. His wife is my grandmother's cousin, so she holds just as much claim to this as I do.
The Russian artcle:
Here is the source:
Веселовский С. Б. Исследования по истории класса служилых землевладельцев. — М.: Наука, 1969. Поскольку многие сведения о Редегиных
являются легендарными и не подтверждены никакими другими источниками, то существование Татианы недостоверно.
It is suggested, according to the Russian text above, that her existence may be unreliable, but here's an article on her nevertheless:
Sources on her taken from the wiki page:
Веселовский С. Б.
Исследования по истории класса служилых землевладельцев. — М.: Наука
, 1969. — 584 с. — 4500 экз.
Зимин А. А.
Формирование боярской аристократии в России во второй половине XV — первой трети XVI в. — М.: Наука
, 1988. — 350 с. — 16 000 экз. — ISBN 5-02-009407-2
However, all that aside, the official Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project clearly lists the surname of my ancestors:
(surname can be found on this official page connected with the one above):
So there you have it, aside from uploading pictures of the portraits that hang at my grandmother's, and top hats, aristocratic wedding invitations, books on our genealogy written by great-great-great-great-great grandfathers, and so-on, and so-forth.
I must note that my family does not just
stem from the bloodline that I'm talking about. We have Bavarian noble ancestry, as well as Serbian and French.
Here's another article on Tatyana:
You can click through the section that says "From grandparents to grandchildren."
It accurately links the genealogy.