Esotericism, Magic and the Occult

[Александр Славрос 8,499]

Decided to tackle this subject so as to address the difference between edgy satantists or autism-cultists and that which actually does have place and value in our Worldview and thus sometimes attracts to our side the attention of the former. We've had too much satanic fascisms discussions and the 09A comes up every now and again so this might as well be dealt with now. Now, this is a hard topic to really get into because of the subject matter so I'll try to only talk about how we should separate the bullshit from what's actually valuable so that we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. And for the record I kept trying to write and re-write this topic about 4 times in two days so the final product is not as good as it could be.

 

I'll quickly go over some of the basics introduced in the other threads I had made before we go more in depth. Our Worldview sees all of Reality divided into World and Superworld, the former is the material / physical / temporal / changeable while the latter is immaterial / metaphysical / timeless / unchanging, the former exists as a reflection of the latter. "The establishment of an objective and efficacious contact between them (World and Superworld) was the presupposition of any higher form of civilization and life" - i.e. the contact between the two is a hallmark of the Golden Age. In the course of Involution this contact is slowly diminished to a point until it is completely gone and we only perceive the World, i.e. material reality, which is the hallmark of the Modern Age. The point when this connection is severed can be called "Death of God" or "Ragnarok" or any of the other concepts that symbolize the "death" of the higher order of reality to humanity after which we only live and experience the material World: "civilization limited only to the human dimension", "everything begins and ends with man, including the heavens, the hells, the glorifications, and the curses", "human experience confined to this world - which is not the real world."

 

What must be clarified next is the nature of this contact, that I had done before in one of the religion topics. This is where the esoteric natures comes into play. Religions and most modern spiritualism is at its core about passivity of humanity towards the spiritual world while presenting all spiritual knowledge as readily available - all you see in a given religious teaching is all you get and you are completely at its mercy, it is egalitarian and conformist. This is exotericism. Esotericism on the other hand is defined by saying that man can not only come into direct contact with the spiritual forces, but he can also study, expect, navigate or even control them, in fact the highest possible state implies transcending all of those forces. But it is not for everyone, not just that not all can do it or even hope to do it but that such teachings should not even be made available for all to know about, they should be kept private for the select few who are in fact capable of practicing these teachings (revelation of esoteric knowledge and subsequent practicing of it became Initiation). One of the obvious reasons for that is that if you allow those incapable of even properly reading such teachings they will misunderstand and misinterpret them, which is exactly what happened.

 

"People know little and talk much. Thus the chance of mistakes and misunderstandings is great. Yet we should not give any support to those who do not even know where the true principles lie, and for whom occultism is just another excuse for games and manias that they divert the public with."

 

One simpler way to mark the difference between exotericism and esotericism is that the former is entirely based on belief due to lack of any actual knowledge of the spiritual while also denying the possibility of knowing it in any positive, empirical manner, whereas the latter draws a divide between those who know and those who do not and opposes all exoteric teachings with the formula "it is better to know that you know nothing, than to believe".

 

 

This form of spiritual knowledge was called Wisdom, the spiritual counterpart to profane knowledge of Science, however they are both dedicated to positive, direct, methodical and experimental knowledge in their respective (spiritual/material) fields. If anything, modern science inherited its attitude from ancient Wisdom. What is done in science to study matter has its parallel in Wisdom as Magic, or at least that is the distinction I would make, based on what one can read in Evola's "Pagan Imperialism" and the misconception produced in the preface to the "Introduction to Magic" by Renato Del Ponte, who explains the UR Group's understanding of the term Magic in opposition to its original meaning, whereas in Pagan Imperialism Evola specifically talks of the nature behind the term Wisdom, placing it exactly in line with the UR Group's use of the word.

 

The first task the UR Group set for itself was to invest the word magic with a particular, active, and functional connotation (as opposed to the connotation of knowledge or wisdom attributed to it in antiquity) that was close to the concept delineated by Roger Bacon: practical metaphysics. Far removed from the abhorred "spiritualistic" practices that were so fashionable at the time, from vulgar spiritism, pseudo-humanitarian Theosophy, and any of the confused and inferior forms of occultism, the UR Group, apart from particular teachings that one or the other of the collaborators may have been most familiar with, intended to reconnect with the very sources of Traditional esoteric teaching, according to that principle of Kremmerz, for whom magic "in all its complexity is simply a series of demonstrable theorems and experiences with concrete effects; the magical truths, as abstract as they may be, owe their evident demonstration in concrete 'fulfillment,' just as abstract mathematical truths have mechanical applications." According to Kremmerz, magic, "or Arcane Knowledge, is divided into two parts, the Natural and the Divine. The former studies all the phenomena due to the occult qualities of the human organism and the way to access and reproduce them within the limits of the organism engaged as a means. The latter is dedicated to preparing the spiritual ascension of the initiate, in such a way as to render possible a relationship between man and the superior natures invisible to the vulgar eye." One must bear in mind, furthermore, that "the point at which the former ends and the latter begins is very difficult to determine . . . and it therefore very often happens that both magical directions [the Natural and the Divine] move forward in tandem."

 

In short: Wisdom and Magic are not synonyms, one is the field of knowledge, the other is the practice required to study that field, and the UR Group's understanding of Magic was perfectly in line with it's definition from antiquity. Roger Bacon's definition of Magic as practical metaphysics is also perfectly in line with this distinction.

 

Occult Knowledge is basically just another term for Wisdom and Occultism another term for Magic in this context. 

 

 

The reason these fields have become the grounds for autism is that in the first place they were branded as evil by exoteric teachings, which is to be expected because of their direct opposition to each other, which in turn of course makes them look edgy kewl. Involution, affecting both certain teachings and people at large, coupled with revealing to the mass public (and Hollywood didn't help matters any) of materials that used to be kept hidden to all but the Initiated led to the idiotic literal translations, misinterpretations and mixing and mashing of things that results in most all modern spiritualism and edgy occultism.

 

Understanding of the Occult as Wisdom and Spiritual Knowledge is gone and replaced with either the notion that it is some SINISTER DARK hocus pocus or feminine New Age mother-earth type spiritualism. Satanism comes into play with the former because of Christianity's war against occult knowledge by means of associating the occult with its own negative big evil monster in the dark narrative. If its magic its HWITCHES so burn them at the stake! 

 

Buddhism is now considered to be a feel-good religion when it used to be an Occult/Esoteric teaching.

 

Alchemy is thought of as a misguided proto form of chemistry, when its actual purpose was the same as that of Buddhism.

 

Magic is thought of in terms of instant material gratification rather than a way of researching and manipulating the spiritual. In fact modern attitude towards magic is similar to that of how people view technology - wave of the wand here and shit happens there, push of a button here and shit happens there. Modern man just wants a machine that will clean his ass for him, he doesn't care about the how. Modern pseudocultist just wants some magic spell or devil contract that will clean his ass for him, he doesn't particularly care about the how, if he does then it is typically done in the style of intellectualism but applied to occult knowledge, once again marking the degenerate thinking involved.

 

Only people of actual scientific knowledge know why and how something happens at the press of a button, same as only "magicians" knew how something may occur as a result of a particular ritual or rite (the establishment of which was pretty much done through trial and error experimentation just like in many fields of early profane science). The law of cause and effect is real for both material and immaterial.

 

Early Rome for one serves as an example of how life in contact with the metaphysical world was organized:

 

 

 

No belief was more strongly upheld by the Romans than the belief that the divine powers were responsible for creating Rome's greatness and for supporting its aeternitas and, consequently, that a war, before being won on the battlefields, had to be won or at least actuated in a mystical way. Following the defeat at Lake Trasimene (217 B.C.), Fabius told his soldiers: "Your fault consists in having neglected the sacrifices and in having ignored the declarations of the augurs rather than in having lacked courage or ability." It was also an article of faith that in order to take a city it was necessary first to cause its tutelary god to abandon it. No war was initiated without sacrifices; a special college of priests (fetiales) was entrusted with the rites pertaining to war. The bottom line of the Roman art of war was not to be forced to tight if the gods were opposed to it. Themistocles said: "The gods and heroes performed these deeds, not us." Again, the real focus of everything was the sacrum. Supernatural actions were invoked to assist human actions and to infuse in them the mystical power of Victory.

 

 

The most benevolent may see in it an eccentric fatalism, but it is neither of these. The essence of the augural art practiced by the Roman patriciate, like similar disciplines, with more or less the same characters which can easily be found in the cycle of the greater Indo-European civilizations, was not the discovery of "fates" to be followed with superstitious passivity: rather, it was the knowledge of points of juncture with invisible infulences, the us of which the forces of men could be developed, multiplied, and led to act on a higher plane, in addition to the everyday one, thus - when the harmony was perfect - bringing about the removal of every obstacle and every resistance within an event-complex which was material and spiritual at the same time. In the light of this knowledge, it cannot be doubted that Roman values, the Roman 'ascesis of power', necessarily possessed a spiritual and sacred aspect, and that they were regarded not only as a means to military and temporal greatness, but also as a means of contact and connection with supernal forces.

 

So there is place for Magic and the Occult in our worldview, in facts its crucial to it, but not as those words are understood today. In fact today's mixing of occult sources for that edgy feel is very much the same as how some idiots are trying to come up with their indieologies. Let me mix together some Cabala, Satanism and Mithraism before I go out and wave my national-anarchist flag around. Moreover mixing of certain occult elements is redundant as they very often say the same thing in different symbolical languages. 

 

Zeiger just recently addressed this in another thread. If you take the edge off you are left with something more scholarly that just doesn't appeal to the spiritual-rebel kid: "fuck you christian dad, I'll become a satanist!"

 

What does all this mean for us in terms of our struggle? Hard to say as at this point we hardly have the knowledge required to truly talk of any kind of practice beyond experimentation so "it is better to know that you know nothing", but it is something that must be looked into. Yeah, Fascists are into Magic, the kind that doesn't involve robes or wizard hats but jackboots and shrooms.

[Alternative Irishman 23]

Interesting thread, I still don't really know much about all this so I'm not really going to say much. I was just curious when you mentioned "pseudocultists". Would you consider Gnosticism an actual tradition (or occult knowledge, wisdom, or whatever)? I haven't read much on it but I was just curious. I've seen Gnostic sources mention the Kaballah and all that crap, but I've also seen the same from some supposed "Hermetic" sources.

[Александр Славрос 8,499]

Well Gnosticism certainly has elements that paralleled in legitimate esoteric teachings but how much of it is works is hard for me to say as I didn't get too into it and Evola only mentions it sometimes in a list of paralleling concepts, don't recall him specifically criticizing it. But even if it is legitimate it will suffer the same as Buddhism, Alchemy and so on from lower caste modern thinking idiots misinterpreting and misrepresenting it. The Kaballah also has paralleling themes but it could be the same case as with Christianity per Evola's argument, that it is something non-traditional that took in certain traditional elements.

 

All I know is that when I hear someone argue Gnosticism nowadays I want to punch them in the throat because they usually come off just as bad as edge-occautists, or rather that they act like a spiritual intellectual.

[Tendies God 424]

Gnostics are either pretty smart guys with some cool stuff or they go full wicca. The later more common than the former.

[Ignis 153]

Yeah, Fascists are into Magic, the kind that doesn't involve robes or wizard hats but jackboots and shrooms.

 

 

This quote actually reminds me of a question I've had for a while now, what exactly is Jackboot Shamanism?

 

And also, while I understand the general message of this topic I'm a bit ignorant on some of the more "magical" elements of Fascism. Basically what I understand is that all forms of spirituality derived from "true" understandings of magic (as in no magic fireball shooting shit) hold the same objective truth, so they could all be considered valid, is this correct?

[Александр Славрос 8,499]

Have you lurked this thread?

 

And yes there is a universal objective Truth, just like there are physical laws, so if we're talking real Wisdom like we talk about real Science then any real occultist/scientist should be able to discover it regardless of them having been in contact with others, only difference is that there is no universal occult language but a multitude of symbolic languages. That's why I keep saying how European Paganism, Buddhism, Alchemy and etc all talk about the same exact thing.

[PSG 234]

This quote actually reminds me of a question I've had for a while now, what exactly is Jackboot Shamanism?

 

Probably get shot for admitting this, but when I was younger, I was a hippy. Really strongly influenced by people like Timothy Leary, I believed that hallucinogenic drugs were 'entheogens', a tool for transcending the limitations placed on us by material existence through the opneing of windows of perception- onto the true nature of the universe, the spiritual aspect of existence, or God. Jackboot shamanism seems to be a similar idea/lifestyle, except instead of using drugs to groove on how we're all like, One, man, you know?- they've instead applied it to an esoteric-Hitlerist worldview.  Essentially- becoming more in tune with the Natural Order through the use of good dope & esoteric practices, to better align yourself mentally & physically with the universe & the fuhrer it sent to us. Trippy stuff.

 

Gnosticism is the only real 'esoteric' religion I have any real knowledge of, and that isn't extensive. I'm not really sure how valuable it is since it's entirely rooted in Judeo-Christian conceptions in the same way Satanism is, although it's got more substance & validity than Satanism. There's still some really interesting ideas in Gnosticism, particularly as it's so strongly centred on the concept of 'gnosis', the acquisition of often secret knowledge as the path to salvation, which seems to tie in with some of what Alex has said about Wisdom in the OP. Gnostic ideas about the Godhead and the Demiurge are appealing on an aesthetic level but they're not convincing & probably don't mesh with our worldview; we view the universe & the natural world as something idealised, whereas for Gnostics it was at best an imperfect illusion created by the Demiurge as a prison, with gnosis the key to freedom. As others have said though the real problem with gnosticism is modern 'gnostics', they're mostly a bunch of tossers looking for a hip occultic Christianity, the same kind of people attracted to Kabbalah or romanticised Western reinventions of Buddhism. There's also an issue that a lot of gnostic ideas haven't been maintained (virtually no Manichaean texts still exist, for instance) so most information about Gnosticism is drawn from a few apocraphal Biblical texts and doesn't provide enough depth for anyone to be able to make the claim that they're an expert.

[Atlas 314]

Our Worldview sees all of Reality divided into World and Superworld, the former is the material / physical / temporal / changeable while the latter is immaterial / metaphysical / timeless / unchanging, the former exists as a reflection of the latter.

So....causal and acausal?

Everything you say in this essay is 99% ONA philosophy. Have you taken time to really read the ONA? Satanism barely factors into it, and is regarded as a useful form which was used and is now generally disregarded.

"The establishment of an objective and efficacious contact between them (World and Superworld) was the presupposition of any higher form of civilization and life" - i.e. the contact between the two is a hallmark of the Golden Age. In the course of Involution this contact is slowly diminished to a point until it is completely gone and we only perceive the World, i.e. material reality, which is the hallmark of the Modern Age. The point when this connection is severed can be called "Death of God" or "Ragnarok" or any of the other concepts that symbolize the "death" of the higher order of reality to humanity after which we only live and experience the material World: "civilization limited only to the human dimension", "everything begins and ends with man, including the heavens, the hells, the glorifications, and the curses", "human experience confined to this world - which is not the real world."

This is almost word for word, exactly why Myatt writes about when he talks about 'Aeonics':

“Regarding Aeons, two important facts should be borne in mind. First the last five hundred years or so of an Aeon show a marked decline in the magickal energy associated with it, and it is during this time that the energies of the next Aeon gradually become evident (at first usually only to Adepts) these energies may be increased (or decreased) by Aeonic magick worked by those who understand the forces involved. Second, each Aeon is associated with what is called a ‘higher civilisation’ from which the Aeon usually takes its name. Within the physical confines of this higher civilisation is the (usually sacred) place where the magickal energies of the Aeon are pronounced – and this because such a place is usually a physical Gate where the causal and the acausal meet. For instance, the centre associated with the Hyperborean Aeon was Stonehenge; that of the Hellenic, Delphi. ” (Myatt aka Thorold West, 1989, Naos, The Septenary System)."

[Noidberg 4,080]

What does ONA say anyway?

 

Edit: LOL 

[Atlas 314]

What does ONA say anyway?

Be more specific.

EDIT REPLY: I've seen this video. An outsider making claims on something he has not experienced, though he 'gets it' better than many who have tried.

Authority is nonexistent within the ONA. All you can do is ask someone who has followed the way (as I have) and judge their answers according to your own insight. You can discern those who have followed as opposed to spergy idiots, because they think ONA is Satanist and they have done none of the dangerous things required. (The physical tasks, the insight roles, culling and so forth). Certain unwritten rues of etiquette do exist, however.

I dont wish to bash Alex, he is astoundingly smart and exactly what Fascism needs. And while I understand it is not conducive to always associate openly with the ONA, I feel all Fascists can benefit form a personal study of its corpus and accumulated pathei mathos.

[Krsnik 862]

@ noid's video: The nose knows....

[Noidberg 4,080]

Yeah well tell me it's philosophy from your perspective. ''Culling the earth''? Why? To get rid of 'degenerates'? If so, is there an occult perspective to why as well?

[Atlas 314]

It is indeed a complex study, and deliberately so. As such, spergs get lost and dont actually end up contributing anything to the ONA. A perfect immune system. Real life, dangerous acts are required; difficult physical tasks. Things no urbanite could easily do. So this sperg claim holds little water.

"The Seven Fold Way is essentially a hermetic system that defines itself as being deeply rooted in Western occultism, and provides a path to ascension that is exceptionally difficult in physical and psychic terms. The seven stages of the Way are (1) Neophyte, (2) Initiate, (3) External Adept, (4) Internal Adept, (5) Master/Mistress, (6) Grand Master/Mousa and (7) Immortal. Yet unlike other degree-based systems, the ONA does not offer initiation to its students; rather, the students must initiate themselves through personal grade rituals and challenges [...] Grade rituals (meaning the rituals of passage) for the fourth stage (Internal Adept) involve living in complete isolation for at least one season, as well as being able to cycle, run, and hike considerable distances. Each grade thereafter requires increasingly difficult challenges, culminating in the 5th grade (Master) with the mystic having to undertake physical challenges comparable to a triathlon, as well as having developed/learned several esoteric skills along the way. One of the most challenging aspects of the Seven Fold Way is the insistence on learning through adversity, known in Greek as pathei-mathos."

And

"Our Labyrinthos Mythologicus is (a) “a modern and an amoral version of a technique often historically employed, world-wide among diverse cultures and traditions both esoteric and otherwise, to test and select candidates,” and ( a mischievous, japing, and sly, part of our sinister dialectic.

Thus and for example, we, the Order of Nine Angles, have presented to outsiders – and to those incipiently of our kind – a series of tests, a modern Labyrinthos Mythologicus, and which tests begin with them being expected to distil our essence from our apparent conflicting opposites. For the majority now rely for information on what is presented to them via a medium such as the Internet, rather than on their own intuition, their empathy, their Occult skills, or on their own character when they (knowingly or unknowingly) meet with one of us in the real world.

For like attracts like. If they trust in and rely on words presented on some impersonal medium, then they will see only words and probably get confused by such words. But if they have our particular character, they will just know, and thus understand beyond the words and the disinformation we have spewn forth for over forty years to ensnare, entrap, enchant, entice, confuse, incite, dissuade, and jape.

For we are unashamedly elitist. Thus we have certain, particular, standards and if someone does not reach those standards, they are quite simply not good enough for us.

For instance, for those desirous of following our Seven Fold Way we have certain physical standards, and Grade Rituals for them to undertake: what we term the three basic ONA tasks. If they fail in these tasks, they fail – there are no excuses, and they can try again until they succeed and meet our standards, or they can go elsewhere. If they succeed, then and only then are they that type of our O9A kind.

Remember therefore that the ONA is a shapeshifting nexion, in the world of the mundanes, and presents as a confusing, dark, labyrinthine, satanic/non-satanic entity, and therefore does/does-not exist, never has existed, and is/is-not defunct; which is/is-not nazi; which was/is/never-was a honeytrap; whose written texts sometimes contradict each other; and is/was merely an urban legend.

As we have said/written for some forty years, we expect individuals to work things out for themselves, and thus use or develop their own judgement, and use or develop their own Occult abilities."

[Atlas 314]

Yeah well tell me it's philosophy from your perspective. ''Culling the earth''? Why? To get rid of 'degenerates'? If so, is there an occult perspective to why as well?

An occult aspect to culling? No, it is simple social Darwinism. But yes, in the belief that a civilisation can not evolve to its highest point whilst supporting, and being held back by, parasites.

My own understanding, after following the way to a certain point is that it is a tradition laid down by someone who wanted real wisdom and left behind his best method, like a scientist. It is up to others to apply this method and judge according to their own accumulated wisdom, building upon it, modifying it. In these respects, I have succeeded.

I have changed innumerably through it, and learnt that suffering can, and is, your best friend in this world.

[Noidberg 4,080]

How is the unity on the absolute truth then? Intuition has a tendency to spawn new age shit. Symbolism and essense is nothing too special, though. That's pretty much a part of all esotericism by it's very definition.

[Atlas 314]

How is the unity on the absolute truth then? Intuition has a tendency to spawn new age shit. Symbolism and essense is nothing too special, though. That's pretty much a part of all esotericism by it's very definition.

The New age marketing scam is the exact opposite of intuition.

What if enotoced the ONA gets right is

1. Personal experience trumps theory- if you apply it correctly

2. You can only truly lie to yourself in terms of achievement

3. Symbols represent a form for an essence. Wisdom comes from understanding the Essence 'as it is', devoid of symbolism.

[Noidberg 4,080]

1. Well yeah, pretty obvious. 

2. What do you mean with that anyway?

3. Which was what I said.

[Александр Славрос 8,499]

i don't care how close it is, you're missing the big issue here. Here's one way of presenting it:

 

09A as described by 09Aers: "its love between consenting adults"

09A as perceived by everyone: "its faggots fucking each other up the ass"

 

No matter how much valid content 09A may or may not have, it completely fucks it with its presentation, delivery and attitude which boils down to tism and pretentious edgy-cultism. It actually attracts people with such tendencies. Furthermore there is little to no reason to invent new symbolic languages which is the very origin of Alchemy, because nowadays the people are so degenerate that it doesn't matter if you have this knowledge hidden or not, people had access to Alchemical texts for a good long while now and the masses at large barely have an idea what their point is. The only places that probably need new symbolic languages are those where Fascism through Anarchy is the only way to go, because they need to create everything fresh. But then of course if the danger of trying to make a new symbolic language when you don't even know the subject you're trying to translate. i know for a fact that I don't yet understand it well enough to invent something, I very much doubt some tards who thought occautist satanist symbolics and spamming the word SINISTER know it well enough either.

[Atlas 314]

i don't care how close it is, you're missing the big issue here. Here's one way of presenting it:

 

09A as described by 09Aers: "its love between consenting adults"

09A as perceived by everyone: "its faggots fucking each other up the ass"

 

No matter how much valid content 09A may or may not have, it completely fucks it with its presentation, delivery and attitude which boils down to tism and pretentious edgy-cultism. It actually attracts people with such tendencies. Furthermore there is little to no reason to invent new symbolic languages which is the very origin of Alchemy, because nowadays the people are so degenerate that it doesn't matter if you have this knowledge hidden or not, people had access to Alchemical texts for a good long while now and the masses at large barely have an idea what their point is. The only places that probably need new symbolic languages are those where Fascism through Anarchy is the only way to go, because they need to create everything fresh. But then of course if the danger of trying to make a new symbolic language when you don't even know the subject you're trying to translate. i know for a fact that I don't yet understand it well enough to invent something, I very much doubt some tards who thought occautist satanist symbolics and spamming the word SINISTER know it well enough either.

Perhaps you'd understand better if you'd met more actual ONA adepts, and not the internet faggot crowd. Anyway, I understand your point completely.

[Atlas 314]

1. Well yeah, pretty obvious.

2. What do you mean with that anyway?

3. Which was what I said.

2. As in, so many occultfags talk about how they are of a rank and level which they are not. Within the ONA you only get to call yourself a title if you've passed certain self imposed tests, I.e. three months in the wild, or running a certain amount whilst carrying a certain amount, within a certain amount of time.

Call yourself an adept all you like, but if you havent fulfilled the basic requirements, you alone have to live with such self deceit.

[ManAmongtheRuins 33]

The real question is, when do we get to meet the ayy lmaos?