88 replies to this topic

[thunor]

Debatable, but I see a lot of undesirables with kids & know they will follow their parents on that path of life.

l am fully versed in the arguments against abortion, but reality is different to the theory of all life being "precious".

l speak from real life experience.

[Woman in Black]

Yes, I've also seen breeds that are parasitic from generation to generation. However it's not systematic - some people do want to escape their environment.

[Александр Славрос]

As WiB just pointed out, this is not just genetics but also psychology, which is a fickle thing. One kid will be drawn into the negative environment thinking it's the only way of life, another will push away hard in disgust of it. Not systematic at all.

And I can speak of experience as well as I know people who grew up in horrible conditions and broke free of those to pursue a very dignified path which they had to make themselves on their own.

[Woman in Black]

True, Alex. I know such people as well, and all honors to them, for it is not an easy path.

[Havok]

Pro-choice, although I think society should promote adoption over abortion. There is the social element to think of, increasing the population of the poor is not a good thing.

[Basiji]

I'm mostly against abortion, unless it is rape, or if the mother is too young, or if the mother cannot take it. And there would be condoms, pills or whatever senseful birth control. As a nation of 90-100 million, i do think that my gov't. should control it a bit. They should give licenses to those who have high qualities (manners, discipline, and health)

[Ferret]

I've been party to two abortions. It doesn't bother me. Pro-abortion, I'd rather do that, on the woman's voluntary level, and help cleanse the welfare roster, than bring forth a multitude of little latchkey kids. Besides, for me the child rests in the woman entirely on her consent, just like anything else put in her body. She has the right to displace it if she no longer gives consent.

[Александр Славрос]

Quote

Besides, for me the child rests in the woman entirely on her consent, just like anything else put in her body. She has the right to displace it if she no longer gives consent.

Consent cannot be retracted after the fact. Otherwise it would be like if any woman could claim rape after "retracting consent" to having sex with a man.

[Yorick]

Stupid headache.

Anyway, since I'm up and bored as hell: Against other than life threatening circumstances. For everything else there's the pill and contraception. In extreme circumstances of overpopulation it might be warranted. However, we are not there yet by a long shot. If anything the US government should be implementing a policy of positive eugenics.

[William]

I don't have a problem with it. It should be used for health/genetic reasons though, not as a means of birth control. Some spoiled 17 year old suburbanite with no responsibilities shouldn't be able to use it as a "get out of jail free" card.

[Ferret]

Alexander Slavros, on 14 January 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Consent cannot be retracted after the fact. Otherwise it would be like if any woman could claim rape after "retracting consent" to having sex with a man.

After what fact? Consent is given every moment the child is inside the mother. After the fact would insinuate that a mother could abort a child after it was born. There is nothing "after" consent while a child is in utero.

[TotalitarianSocialist]

By law fetuses that are deformed and/or retarded must be aborted. The fetus of (a) parent/s that are mentally challenged must be aborted, though this will not happen much as the mentally challenged will be sterilized. Abortion will be illegal if it is a a fetus of a decent caliber. In cases of rape by law the fetus must be aborted, the child of a rapist is not a child of decent caliber. I have a hatred of condoms and want them to be illegal but the secret police will not have condoms high on their priority, if at all. Banning certain activities or things under an authoritarian(preferably totalitarian) government keeps people in check. Contraceptive pills are sterilization is what must be used to combat unwanted pregnancies. The cells of the fetuses that are aborted will be used for stem cell research.

[Judikar]

Ferret, on 29 February 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

After what fact? Consent is given every moment the child is inside the mother. After the fact would insinuate that a mother could abort a child after it was born. There is nothing "after" consent while a child is in utero.

I believe Slavros is claiming (correct me if I'm wrong) that this idea that the child is solely the mother's charge amounts to hogwash. A woman cannot will herself a child and a stroke doesn't bring her one. She lies with a man and they create one. Therefore, life and death decisions can only be made with the consent of both concerned parties.
And they consented to this arrangement when they took part in the act that (from time to time) creates babies. A mother can not rightfully kill their child anymore than a father can run out on this family.

[Dux]

TotalitarianSocialist, on 29 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

fetus of a decent caliber

Of a decent caliber? What the fuck is wrong with you? Human life isn't cattle to be judged.

[PhilippeLizard]

In my country, they strumentalized the discussion about abortion in a way similar to what happened in the U.s.a., with the consequence that, like a lot of other political issues, it is not studied and valuated in a scientific way or with intellectual indipedence, but only according to the game of roles between polltical clans.

I don't have a personal developed opinion about the entire issue of abortion, because it is very hard and complex, but I'm against the criminalization of women and teh hypocrisy of a society who brainwash you about sex and then still haunt at you for an umpredicted pregnancy.

And Ethno, listen to me, never tought about RECEIVING a hit on your mouth?

[TotalitarianSocialist]

Dux, on 01 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Human life isn't cattle to be judged.

Humans evolved from animals. Man is just another animal. Yes a more intelligent animal that is capable of building civilization but an animal none the less.

[Blutaar]

"On the one hand I'm for abortion because it kills children, on the other hand I'm against it since it gives women choice"
- Some anonymous genius

No, just kidding.
Actually, I agree with Alex' first post on this thread. I can't really add something to that.

[Woman in Black]

TotalitarianSocialist, on 29 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

By law fetuses that are deformed and/or retarded must be aborted. The fetus of (a) parent/s that are mentally challenged must be aborted, though this will not happen much as the mentally challenged will be sterilized. Abortion will be illegal if it is a a fetus of a decent caliber. In cases of rape by law the fetus must be aborted, the child of a rapist is not a child of decent caliber. I have a hatred of condoms and want them to be illegal but the secret police will not have condoms high on their priority, if at all. Banning certain activities or things under an authoritarian(preferably totalitarian) government keeps people in check. Contraceptive pills are sterilization is what must be used to combat unwanted pregnancies. The cells of the fetuses that are aborted will be used for stem cell research.

2 footnotes:

- Some diseases causing retardation only develop during childhood and even adulthood, and the foetus looks ok.
- Condoms should be banned? Then how do you protect yourself against STD's such as AIDS or hepatitis?

[Ferret]

I'm not taking most of what he says seriously.

[État de Stase]

TotalitarianSocialist, on 01 March 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Humans evolved from animals. Man is just another animal. Yes a more intelligent animal that is capable of building civilization but an animal none the less.

And that is the wonder of morale and discipline, taking the human over the stade of mere animal. We have become more than animals because we were capable of mastering our pulsions and instincts thus building civilization and prospering. If we had stayed to the state of beast, we would now live in woods or an Africa-like world. Treating us like animals will take us back to the state of simple creature. Treating people like humans is nothing against the natural order, we have only advanced in this order and evolved.

Believe what you want but I say we must treat ourselves as a community of humans and not as a collection of beasts who doesn't give a shit except fucking and eating eachother. And by community, I say nation of culturally-related people.