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Александр Славрос

American Futurism Workshop

142 posts in this topic

I'm posting here the products of the "American Futurism Workshop", a small skype group I started with several american users to discuss the prospects of a true american fascist movement in absence of any real national, cultural, traditional basis to work with.

 

V8SmkfC.png

 

It's been long since evident that the US suffers from afflictions that make fascism nearly impossible to implement within the existing framework, i.e. the system and the society it produced (rather than a naturally forming ethnic society producing a state for themselves). We naturally look back to many american nationalists with respect, people like George Lincoln Rockwell, William Luther Pierce and others - great contributors to the fascist cause in theory, tactics and narrative but they were all but almost certainly doomed to fail in USA. They certainly had good runs and at their time there were better prospects of somehow steering the US in a more fascist direction with where it was at the time, but the system in place would never yield and naturally progress to the decay that exists today meaning that the very founding aspects of the US determined its vector of progression.

 

It should've become self-evident to most american fascists at this point that the US is not just unsalvageable but that it never had any redeeming elements to it in the first place and any notions of keeping that framework intact and giving it a fascist narrative are just symptoms of anyone who promotes this path being ensnared by that very framework. A Fascist fighting for preservation of the US framework is one that is being manipulated by it in the first place, the need to preserve it comes from patriotardism of the worst kind.

 

Any real, natural (ethnic) people can differentiate between a state and their nation. Whoever is loyal to the nation is a nationalist, whoever is loyal to the state is a patriot: "the safety of German culture in Austria first required the destruction of Austria, and that feelings of nationalism have nothing to do with patriotism to an Imperial dynasty. The house of Hapsburg was destined to bring misery on the German nation." Only a national-state can have national-patriots, defenders of the national state that defends the nation, in a state that doesn't defend the nation the patriots will always be at odds with nationalists.

 

Yet USA is an artificial body, a collection of exiles, runaways, escapists and adventurers that formed a state based on certain values, liberal ones to be exact. Because its a work of a multitude of people with various ethnic backgrounds there was never any hope for a real ethnic national mentality, culture and tradition, instead everyone participated in creating this impersonal, nationally speaking, artificial construct that had nothing within it but itself, i.e. it is entirely driven by the ideals it was based on, there is no national element to it, but it in turn produced a state culture to facilitate civic nationalism which determines nationhood by virtue of citizenship. This inclusive state culture of civic nationalism is the only reason a state of such size managed to emerge in the first place, if all the people who traveled to the US stuck to their own culture and ethnic background as the foundation for their own communities there'd be a multitude of small states in place of the US, instead they all merged together and the remnants of these cultures became just regional flavors of US civic nationalism, but ultimately only the unifying civic nationalist formula is the one that keeps the whole thing together.

 

This lack of a real, ethnic, nation and national culture is exactly why White Nationalism was born in the US, in absence of any one ethnicity being able to claim dominance they had to go about it in broader terms. It's not bad from a fascist perspective as such but the reason it came to be is one that has nothing to do with the fascist narrative, it was an inevitable step made out of necessity rather than ideals.

 

So, there is no real American nation and as such there can be no such thing as american nationalism, not as we see nationalism, only thing that exists in the US is civic nationalism powered by state culture. When you hear americans talk of a nation its simply patriotardism and since there was never any alternative this got ingrained deeply into american psyche so even american fascists are afflicted. If one talks about american values. american nation, american pride one talks of the artificial construct that is powered entirely by the state - if you destroy the US there will be no americans because there won't be any US citizenship. In case of such an event people will still claim to be americans simply because the momentum of this ingrained perception will carry on for some time.

 

Any ethnic nation can call for the destruction of its current state in order to replace it with a new one and still be the nation they were, only Americans have a lose all scenario (technically speaking this is also true for Canada and Australia but we're focusing on the US here). What americans fail to grasp is that the supposed american culture is entirely state-based and think of themselves a nation in some fairly vague subconscious comprehension. It is because of this delusion that american "nationalists" mistakingly believe that the system has to be preserved in some capacity - there is nothing to fall back on without it, this IS the nation or what defines it. Calling oneself an american nationalist is as good as calling oneself an american patriot - civic nationalism is literally patriotism.

 

American fascists/nationalists look to the rest of the world and somehow imagine they have the same situation and that they can operate under the same principles when in fact the situation is so drastically different that the only solutions one can seek from a fascist perspective in the US also have to be drastically different.

 

From a fascist perspective the US is based on everything that we fundamentally oppose so the solution is fairly self-evident - total destruction, and this would be the only real fascist take on the US situation, any pussyfooting around it with claims of how the system can be changed to be national is that deeply ingrained patriotardism at work on a subconscious level. If you want something real and organic to exist where the US is now then you have to wipe the slate clean and begin anew in the same fashion how other natural, organic, nations had begun.

 

With that said, here are the materials of the workshop that were dedicated to visualizing a possible US fascist movement with a particular narrative that would appeal to americans (since that is the main dilemma for American Fascists - to promote destruction of America to americans in a way that would appeal to americans) and that would work on the deeper premise given above. Mind you that may need to read what I had posted in Fascism - Restoring Tradition thread to get the context of some aspects in the following materials as this idea is also based in traditionalism.

 

AND mind you this was before Jacob quit the movement and we were still thinking how to get him engaged in this.

 

My pitch of the idea to Blood, a copy of which I had later sent to other american users to have their input, this is how the American Futurism Workshop got started:

Spoiler

[15.09.2013 22:44:08] Александр Славрос: >USA
>founded by people already affected by involutionary decline
>for all intents and purposes founded by people without tradition, armed with anti-traditional concepts and ideals

In tradition the idea of immortality is in returning to the source, rejuvination, so thats why any move away from involutionary ideas up the ladder is good, its the fountain of youth principle, you're "immortal" because you go back to the source

USA doesn't have the luxury of a traditional source, its entirely anti-traditional in its conception

so you can't really have a "go back to the good old days" theme like Mussolini had with the Roman Empire

OR CAN YOU?

there is one thing that USA can come back to that has semblance of traditional potential in it - the frontier life.

Frontier life was disconnected from the life in the already established, cultivated regions with infrastructure that followed the new system and its laws and constitution, so in the frontier life everybody enjoyed a different type of life, it is partially the continuation of the american "uproot and move" mentality which brought the original settlers there in the first place.

The idea of moving free from place to place not having to follow any rules but what you make of life in that moment is what american mentality enjoys a lot from what I can gather. Just think about it: pensioners use saved up money to travel the country in an RV, bikers are like the last cowboys, and you have a fetish for living "after the end of civilization", i.e. zombie-apocalypse movies/games/tv series and post-apocalypse themes like Fallout. You also have all your rednecks who try to live away from the system for their own reasons but they do fit into that category of not wanting anyone over them, you got the whole "fucking federals" thing as well, like state civic pride is bigger in some instances than "national" federal pride as far as the system goes. You have obsession with survivalism, there are people making cold weapons for zombie-apocalypse and people modifying guns for the zombie-apocalypse, all the bunker-in-my-backyard lovers and so on

what resembles any potential in growing tradition in the US comes through the idea of the system falling apart entirely to create frontier life all over the states (remember New Vegas, soon as no system there appeared potential for creating shit like the Legion), everyone are the law as much as they can impose it where they are at. This also connects to the traditional concept of freedom, in the sense that only one person can be free so people struggle and establish who is the boss, the boss is the free person, and so a hierarchy forms this way first with small groups and moving on up.

the book Fight Club is build around the idea "fuck the past those old people are dead and I'm alive" and has distinctly tribalist themes that you can also find with many people in the states and in Jack Donovan's work

SO the idea is that you take the only fascist concept that is by its direct nature anti-traditional, i.e. futurism, the idea of "to hell with the past" (Marinetti fell out of the fascist movement because he opposed the obsession with returning to Rome) and a technocratic feel to it, rocket men and all that.

American Futurism has every potential because it is rooted in those deep-seated yank aspects, the american dream isn't a fucking system, its actually the lack of one big structure presiding over you thus making the individual free to be what he can make of himself without anyone limiting his possibility to do so, and if someone tries he can exercise his freedom in the pursuit of freedom to fucking take off his head with a shotgun.

So in this sense American Futurism is the idea of cleaning out the system as a concept all-together, establishing a political no-man's land where everyone can begin to take a piece, this can either clear the slate for the growth of an actual traditional body or it may balance itself out as this survivalist geographical body.

This may sound really fucked up if you really want USA to still be "a thing" though
[15.09.2013 22:45:44] Blood and Iron: >USA
>still a living concept
[15.09.2013 22:45:59] Blood and Iron: American exceptionalism is disgusting, bloated by it's own arrogance
[15.09.2013 22:46:06] Александр Славрос: essentially this makes the target audience of the american futurism such groups as bikers, rednecks, gun nuts, survivalists, etc
[15.09.2013 22:46:17] Александр Славрос: tribalists
[15.09.2013 22:46:24] Александр Славрос: in a modern setting
[15.09.2013 22:46:32] Александр Славрос: what more potential this has is this
[15.09.2013 22:46:54] Александр Славрос: you can tap into already existing circuits like Jack Donovan and these Manhood groups because they all veer towards tribalism
[15.09.2013 22:47:03] Александр Славрос: Jack Donovan is plainly open about it even
[15.09.2013 22:47:08] Blood and Iron: yeah, even guys like Aurini
[15.09.2013 22:47:25] Blood and Iron: localism, tribalism, etc. seems to be a bigger thing in the U.S.
[15.09.2013 22:47:26] Blood and Iron: because, well
[15.09.2013 22:47:31] Blood and Iron: we skipped over that portion of history
[15.09.2013 22:47:39] Blood and Iron: we went straight to nation-state by way of colony
[15.09.2013 22:47:48] Александр Славрос: jup
[15.09.2013 22:47:52] Blood and Iron: Europe already has it
[15.09.2013 22:48:11] Blood and Iron: it's essentially a primal yearning in us
[15.09.2013 22:48:17] Blood and Iron: and I think it should be cultivated
[15.09.2013 22:49:19] Александр Славрос:  imagine a national guard regiment being futurist, their prime concerns are technocratic to keep their warmachines going, tanks and such but in a setting of urban tribalism

its just something I sometimes imagine as the poster-child image of american tribalism
[15.09.2013 22:50:00] Blood and Iron: I need to get Jacob on board with such concepts
[15.09.2013 22:50:07] Blood and Iron: instead of copy-pasting Dugin into America
[15.09.2013 22:50:12] Александр Славрос: I tried to gently prod him with it
[15.09.2013 22:50:15] Александр Славрос: he was like
[15.09.2013 22:50:21] Александр Славрос: hey cool yeah I thought of something similar
[15.09.2013 22:50:25] Александр Славрос: but lately he's been in a mood
[15.09.2013 22:50:47] Александр Славрос: when I confronted him with this dugin copy BS he was like Alex we both know american futurism would never have worked out sob
[15.09.2013 22:50:49] Александр Славрос: and now he's
[15.09.2013 22:51:03] Александр Славрос: i wanna drop out of activism i deserve to have an okay life too
[15.09.2013 22:51:06] Александр Славрос: something to that extent
[15.09.2013 22:51:13] Blood and Iron: he is too easily swayed
[15.09.2013 22:51:18] Александр Славрос: Jacob is a guy that needs some sort of confidence nanny
[15.09.2013 22:51:19] Blood and Iron: any slight wind carries him off
[15.09.2013 22:51:31] Blood and Iron: yeah, he needs a confidence commissar
[15.09.2013 22:51:36] Blood and Iron: to figuratively shoot him when he retreats
[15.09.2013 22:51:43] Александр Славрос: and he needs to be part of a group as much as possible
[15.09.2013 22:51:57] Александр Славрос: because that always works for confidence
[15.09.2013 22:52:01] Blood and Iron: he whines about the Matts but they have a vice grip on him
[15.09.2013 22:52:04] Blood and Iron: anyway, gotta be heading out
[15.09.2013 22:52:13] Blood and Iron: if you're still on when I'm back we shall continue this
[15.09.2013 22:52:14] Blood and Iron: good stuff
[15.09.2013 22:52:17] Blood and Iron: perhaps have a call
[15.09.2013 22:52:21] Александр Славрос: sure thing
[15.09.2013 22:52:22] Blood and Iron: will be back
[15.09.2013 22:52:25] Александр Славрос: cya
[15.09.2013 22:52:29] Blood and Iron: see ya
[15.09.2013 23:03:01] Александр Славрос: >Fight Club
>"whipe your ass with the Mona Lisa"

American Futurist slogan: "Whipe your ass with the constitution"

 

Initial draft of the American Futurism Manifesto (idealistic one rather than a political policies one) to get a discussion going in the skype group, rather than THE explanation for what American Futurism is supposed to be:

Spoiler

Behold, America, the land of opportunity, where it was born and where it was shot dead and left to bleed out and decompose on the side of the road. This used to be the place to be if you wanted a new start, if you wanted to run away from the life of the Old World – instead you got exactly what you were running away from and then some. What is this great nation if not the putrid concentration of all the worse aspects of the decay that had taken over the Old World way back when?

The Old World followed those who sought freedom and wanted to impose its order on this soil as well – our ancestors replied to that with a revolution. The Founding Fathers declared independence but sowed a poisonous seed, one that was full of the very rot that was killing Europe, but while Europeans had something distinctly their own to fall back on in order to fight death – America had nothing. So our ancestors kept running, running away from anything resembling a system and law, to the frontiers where a man still had a chance to make something of himself without a damn Big Brother watching over the shoulder to nag and impose limitations, where law was defined not on some paper but by your own ability to defend what you’ve carved out for yourself.

 

But soon enough the poisonous seed spread its roots all across this land and eventually there were no more places left to hide or run away to. And yet that is exactly what many people still want today.

Immortality is in the fountain of youth – drink from it and go back to your beginning, but where can Americans go? The constant debate on who is or isn’t betraying the law of the Founding Fathers, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence – it is completely irrelevant, because it is the source of our decay. Whatever is good in the constitution isn’t an accomplishment of some dead men, but rather stems from the principles that brought people to the New World in the first place, principles that predate the Founding Fathers; whatever is purely of the Founding Fathers in the constitution is the disease that is killing us.

 

“This is our world now, our world, and those ancient people are dead.”

 

To hell with the past because the past is what’s killing us, strangling us and won’t let go of our throat until we cut it at the root. Our fountain of youth isn’t in adherence to the writings of dead people; it is in those principles that brought our ancestors here in the first place – it is in the life of the frontier, in a political no-man’s land, it is in the life before and after a civilization and the desire for that life is engraved deeply in the mind of every true red-blooded American that didn’t succumb to being a slave of this system.

 

It is clear as day that what an American wants is to be free to travel from place to place, no laws but what his own, true freedom. Bikers are the last cowboys, pensioners want to travel the country in their RV’s, rednecks, racists, tribalists and survivalists all try to isolate themselves from mainstream society and create their own social environment in the woods, compounds and settlements that they create themselves.

 

Our pop culture is riddled with expressions of this desire: movies, tv-series and games about a zombie apocalypse (Walking Dead tv series), a post-apocalyptic future (Fallout game series), a collapse of our society (Tom Clancy’s The Division) are immensely popular in society and amongst people who wait for the fall of society in particular as they now cold steel weapons and guns for these scenarios (namely the zombie apocalypse) – we want our civilization to fall and crumble around us because we live in a rotting corpse of a prison, and once it falls apart we’ll be able to get a glimpse of the sun.

 

We like to talk about freedom but in reality we are all slaves in a multitude of ways. We’re not merely slaves to a defunct state through our dedication to dead men’s words (that most can’t be bothered to remember anyway making it an irrational drive instilled in us through generations); we’re not merely slaves to corporations through consumerism; we are foremost slaves to each other. In agreeing to a social contract with a state as the arbiter we had all willingly giving up our freedom, true freedom. Instead we have a system of mutual limitations – I limit your freedom and you limit mine and we must accept it at that because that is the law, the social contract enforced by the state that holds the monopoly on violence in order to sort us out if we suddenly attempt to practice real freedom. Real freedom allows us to sort each other out, whoever comes out victorious by imposing his will, be it through manipulation, coercion or force, affirms his freedom – no state, no lawyers, no third parties. You and me, here and now.

 

Naturally guns become a great tool in the affirmation of ones freedom and the establishment of ones law because his reach is extended as far as the bullet will take it, splattering the brains of whoever dared to challenge you and yours. No, this will not bring about anarchy of everyone against everyone, because nature declared men are not equal, through this constant push and shove of establishing dominance and the freedom that comes with it leads to the formation of gangs, groups, tribes, movements, where every person is put into the exact place where he belongs: the leader, the right hand man, the warriors, the look outs and etc depending on the nature of the group. Want freedom? Bring down corporations to emancipate yourself from consumerism. Crush the banks to emancipate yourself from debt. Burn down the night clubs, gyms and fast food joints to emancipate yourself from hedonism. Destroy the system, to emancipate yourself from everyone else around yourself. Want freedom? End this “american” way of life. Wipe your ass with the constitution. This is the call of American Futurism:

 

1. We want to bring about the complete and rightaway destruction of American civilization, to blast this society free from its own history
2. We aim to do that by utilizing its own systems, technology and mechanisms against it. We will jump at the wheel of American civilization and push it into overdrive until it crashes and burns, forcing us into a clean slate.
3. We stand for the true American way of life, where your freedom and happiness are determined by you alone.
4. We will make way for a new American Frontier, one that exists around every corner for every American.

 

And just as our Italian predecessors:

 

1. We want to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and rashness.
2. The essential elements of our poetry will be courage, audacity and revolt.
3. Beauty exists only in struggle. There is no masterpiece that has not an aggressive character. Poetry must be a violent assault on the forces of the unknown, to force them to bow before man.
4. We want to glorify war — the only cure for the world — militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman.
5. We want to demolish museums and libraries, fight morality, feminism and all opportunist and utilitarian cowardice.

 

I am American Futurism – I am what you fear most, I am what you need, I am what you made me – I am the American Dream.

 

Some posters I had made to illustrate the proposed aesthetic feel to an American Futurist movement:

Spoiler

udYa3E1.png

 

lLUJLSo.jpg

 

Log of the American Futurist Workshop skype group (leaving out some Jacob drama [Могучий in the log] and irrelevant discussions):

Spoiler

[24.09.2013 3:09:54] brutwurst: Anyways, this idea came at a good time for me. Between now and August of 2014 I will be transitioning out of Active Duty and into the Reserves to get back into art. For the past few months I've been planning to work on some artwork that fits what Slavros has been describing to me, stuff that would get much exposure in the local scene in my city. Many enemies for sure, but I know a few righteous men who may yet be saved.
[24.09.2013 4:03:46] Blood and Iron: many enemies, much honor

[25.09.2013 7:04:06] brutwurst: Hey Jacob, I got some stuff to run by you at some point, but I gotta sleep in a minute here unfortunately
[25.09.2013 7:05:33] brutwurst: But basically there's some stuff you had in Reaktion 3 (mainly in that one psychadelic cross-country odyssey of rape and pillage) that I wanted to play with. I'll get back to you about specifics later but figured I'd give you a heads up
[25.09.2013 7:06:36] Blood and Iron: jarhead rape and pillage fantasies?
[25.09.2013 7:06:52] brutwurst: yuh pretty much, 4 muh futurisms
[25.09.2013 7:07:09] Blood and Iron: legit m88, rape de civilian plebs
[25.09.2013 7:11:32] brutwurst: Like, I'm going from active military to the Reserves, but will be training in counter intelligence/human intelligence. The next 5 years will be prime time to influence minds, or at least make a shit ton of enemies in a very spectacular way.

[25.09.2013 7:23:13] brutwurst: It's unfortunate it had to go that way, Jacob. I remember reading Reaktion in Afghanistan and thinking to myself "My God, yes, this is what I've been looking for." but I was rather late to the party. Kacen invited me to IM like 2 years ago but I never got involved til December
[25.09.2013 7:24:17] brutwurst: I totally understand feeling done with it all though. That's a huge fucking burnout. Time wasted is a sick feeling.
[25.09.2013 7:25:25] Александр Славрос: true that, however I personally would be more so pissed at the  idea that the schmucks that wrote knights of avalonia or whatever kick the wind out of me
[25.09.2013 7:26:11] Александр Славрос: what i'd want is to go back in swinging and knock them down into the ground and watch them crash and burn from merely making an appearance
[25.09.2013 7:27:08] brutwurst: I'd just make fun of them for being FUCKING FAT, but that's just me.
[25.09.2013 7:27:17] Александр Славрос: well sure that too
[25.09.2013 7:27:24] Александр Славрос: but its like what I discussed with jacob before
[25.09.2013 7:27:27] brutwurst: (Honestly I haven't, since they never done me wrong, but you know what I mean)
[25.09.2013 7:27:36] Александр Славрос: have the futuruist movement be confrontational
[25.09.2013 7:27:41] Александр Славрос: like appear at the same protests
[25.09.2013 7:27:50] Александр Славрос: and protest both the object of the protest and those protesting
[25.09.2013 7:27:51] Александр Славрос: like
[25.09.2013 7:27:54] Александр Славрос: "you're faggots too!"
[25.09.2013 7:28:24] Александр Славрос: in fact it could be a whole angle to the movement
[25.09.2013 7:28:29] Александр Славрос: "its our way or the highway"
[25.09.2013 7:28:51] Александр Славрос: and organize counter-action against rival activism that is tarded and counter productive
[25.09.2013 7:29:13] Александр Славрос: like tradyouth goes to draw chalk at a campus again? SUddenly futurists come around the corner and beat them up
[25.09.2013 7:29:27] brutwurst: Either way I see potential for this whole American Futurism thing. It ties in a lot with what Mark Dyal and Jack Donovan have been preaching about, about the sort of "frontier fascism" that's been discussed in the logs Alexander sent me
[25.09.2013 7:30:07] Александр Славрос: yes, that too, like I said there is already an audience out there for american futurism
[25.09.2013 7:30:29] Александр Славрос: you don't have to sell them the idea you just have to sell them the aesthetics and membership
[25.09.2013 7:32:06] brutwurst: in my city there's a lot of male "Anarchists" who are burnt out and disenfranchised with how that whole movement is nothing but male-hate, arguments over gender pronouns, and trigger warnings these days. They get run out of meetings at the collectives for being "too masculine" or "too triggering" or for wanting to live a little dangerously. These are the kind of men looking for something else before they give up and resign to a life of wearing khakis and a tie and working for some company they hate.
[25.09.2013 7:32:46] Александр Славрос: you are not your fucking khakis
[25.09.2013 7:33:20] Александр Славрос: the angle with fight club is also great for propaganda because its a cult book, the movie misses the key tribalist narrative but still
[25.09.2013 7:34:45] brutwurst: Personally I see potential in that crowd. As anarchism becomes synonymous with Big Sister and all her body-positive gender theory bullshit, you're going to see a few bellicose men falling out of it and getting bored or kicked out of it all. They may look like punks or hipsters, but they may be our few righteous men.
[25.09.2013 7:34:52] brutwurst: Definitely Fight Club
[25.09.2013 7:37:10] brutwurst: And good God, don't get me started on military veterans. In that realm you have a lot of former-Libertarians who told themselves that capitalism was the way, but in the end realized that if Big Sister government didn't neuter them, some other big coporation with its global marketing policies would. Can't be racist, sexist, foulmouthed, or dangerous-living if you want to make it in the smooth-polished body-positive Google future, can we?

[25.09.2013 7:55:27] Blood and Iron: but I do want a state at some point
[25.09.2013 7:55:31] Blood and Iron: like brutwurst said
[25.09.2013 7:55:42] Blood and Iron: in the vein of Donovan/Dyal frontier fascism
[25.09.2013 7:55:47] Blood and Iron: totally Murrikan with an end game
[25.09.2013 7:56:25] Александр Славрос: well you'll need to clue me in on what donovan/dyal said about that but yes as you recall thats what I said, the idea with AF is to clean the slate so some tradition may emerge and a traditional state can appear

[25.09.2013 21:27:24] Могучий: Writing for our Futurist discussions, like right now as we speak

[25.09.2013 21:58:47] Могучий: If you look around at post modernism especially in America, and well -all of the West for that matter. We live in a culture of Death. We live in an age of violent video games, abortion, a fetish for apocalypse films and tv series, we turn on the TV to read about some nigger gunning down a rival gang banger or raping a white woman, we see so much on drunk drivers and police brutality. Death truly is the center fold of our world. It was founded on death! The Death of traditional concepts of marriage, family, race, and nation gave rise a meat grinder of gore and mayhem in mass media. We're all apart of it no matter what side of the political, social, or religious field you tread on. If you are a democrat, death to poverty and Syria. If you are a Republican then Death to the poor! If you are a Muslim -death to infidels, If you are a Jew -death to Goyim. If you are a fagot -death to traditional Marriage, if you are proud of your race then death to everyone unless you're a self-hating white fagot then you want to murder your own people.  If you are a Christian -Death and Resurrection- let's not get into who believes in what but let us take this concept of the resurrected dead saving the world and apply to our own logic.

We want the death of everything modern. All forms of government, values, finance and economics, art, music, aesthetics, fashion, perhaps even technology? When one phone dies it is replaced by a newer and upgraded model -we are the upgraded model. We want the death of America so we can resuscitate it the same way the Germanic tribes brought the west back to light after the debauched Rome died. We are those marauding tribes of Vandals, Goths, and Saxons. The modern world begs for the coup de grace and we will deliver it.

Because we propose such a dramatic break from all this world has to offer I will call myself a Futurist and I happily extend the invitation to you. It is not without stipulations of course.

The issue I will concern is the how the Fascists in America have built this hug box around themselves. They always want to fist bump and build alliances and network. Whatever happened to Social Darwinism and Competition? When Christianity was being formulated and spread you have thousands of pagan and gnostic sects trying to squeeze into the clothes. You had Mithraic cults praising the dieing and resurrecting God you had Egyptians synthesizing the Gospel into their own mysticism. If Christianity decided to fist bump all these cults and sects then Christianity would not have risen to reign over Europe! In fact, Christianity may not have existed at all for much longer. Christianity had a ruthless and bloodthirsty policy of kill the unbelievers and purge the heretics! This is how Christianity came to dominate -Swords not Hugs. If you want to carry the Futurist label you must bring a sword and we'll give you a list of enemies on all sides as our complementary gift to you.
[25.09.2013 21:58:53] Могучий: still in progress ^
[25.09.2013 22:01:53] Могучий: fFUCKING TYPOS!
[25.09.2013 22:12:00] Могучий: Alex, I will be taking your Futurist manifesto and adding my own Reaktion tinge to it. I am not trying to step on your toes and I'm not saying you are not a good writer, but I just feel it appropriate the First American Futurist (ala issue 3 of reaction) should be the one to revise it
[25.09.2013 22:21:08] Могучий: I've had this private fantasy I will share here
[25.09.2013 22:21:28] Могучий: Wouldn't it be grand if I could get 40 Futurists to march with me I INdy and storm the state capital building for the lolz

I've got a few paragraphs that kept ticking through my head last night as I tried to sleep. Will be writing them down and posting here shortly.

[27.09.2013 3:23:09] brutwurst: Back
[27.09.2013 3:36:35] brutwurst: Gonna post sumpin in here shortly
[27.09.2013 3:36:48] brutwurst: For ye to pick over for le manifesto
[27.09.2013 4:03:29] brutwurst: I think it'd be beneficial for a small portion of this to address veterans, since they're going to be some of the more receptive people to this kind of thing. So here's a rough sketch of something that I hope can be hashed into what we're making:
[27.09.2013 4:03:31] brutwurst: And what then, for those of us who waged war on behalf of the bankers on Wall Street and their barons in Washington D.C., who came home with tired eyes terrifyingly open to the degeneration that grips our dead American Fatherland? Fighting Man, how does it feel to wear a black KIA band while some beads & baubles-wearing faggot riding through college on his rich family's dollar tells you to check your privilege?

There is no return to the bread and circuses of consumer citizenship! For us there is no rejoining the mob in its adoration over the latest celebrity coming out of the closet, the newest video-game machine, the hottest sex scandal, or the frenzy of the next election. We are God's lonely men, waiting for the sun to shine, praying for a good fight to affirm our existence.

We dogs of war who crushed the Mohammedian hordes of Iraq and Afghanistan, yet were scorned by our media masters and crooked politicians for our righteous brutality, we have grown bored of wars fought for weak rich men in suits, men who have no stomach for the very violence they demand of us. For us, "The War on Terror" was was a mere rehearsal for our Greater Holy War.
[27.09.2013 4:13:57] Могучий: nice, but what we need to work out is a coherent and tangible long-term plan so this thing can be self-sustaining. We need to come up with something that is more then just sign waving and websites.
[27.09.2013 4:15:14] Могучий: And unless we can actually get real action going, like some of us living together to act, we're just wasting time. We have to actually be able to go out with stuff and it cannot stay on the internet.
[27.09.2013 4:15:24] Могучий: We have to actually, physically, get together and put in work.
[27.09.2013 4:15:28] Могучий: In real life.
[27.09.2013 4:15:39] Могучий: No more internet activism or we're just wasting time.

[27.09.2013 4:19:30] brutwurst: as for actual doing shit, at least while in Paris group, I know as a start I'm going to be going to IOU for a plumbing degree. I've worked professionally in the sewer underworld for years prior to the Plumber Academy, and know I can easily get a lot of this stuff across with my toilet brush. That and judging by how a couple local diaper fetishists have put me on a "fuck this guy up" list, I'm probably in for some overtime at the daycare.
[27.09.2013 4:21:01] brutwurst: brb
[27.09.2013 4:27:16] brutwurst: Mark Dyal's described something that basically amounts to using violence (whether it's the promise of violence, or an actual violent act) to establish truly free space around yourself or your group. Kind of like how CasaPound conducted some of its squatting events, though squatting isn't specifically what I had in mind. I'm completely butchering it, so I'll need to copy & paste his exact words on this later, but it's essentially educated gang behavior. The problem is the lack of gang; we're scattered.
[27.09.2013 4:27:32] brutwurst: So my focus is going to be trying to find whatever righteous men in my city that I can.
[27.09.2013 4:27:38] Могучий: me too XD
[27.09.2013 4:28:36] brutwurst: There's a lot of people who think they're anarchists, but they want something else. Something with fangs, honestly.
[27.09.2013 4:29:43] brutwurst: and the more they get pushed out by the faggots and feminists shrieking at them for mistakenly using the wrong gender pronoun because they didn't know that thing that was a She last week is now a He and would be "triggered" by somebody getting that wrong, they know something's not right.
[27.09.2013 4:39:08] brutwurst: don't laugh at me, but, I've been meeting up occasionally with Keith Preston and some of his friends. Keith isn't interested in Fascism, he's just one of those far right Bakunin-influenced Anarchists who's like "I'm not ANTIFA, I have Fascist friends!", but he does have other friends who have ideas more in common with me. One of them is some skinhead in Fredericksburg who's setting up a bookstore in the next few months and I've been in contact with
[27.09.2013 4:50:07] Могучий: To be honest
[27.09.2013 4:50:16] Могучий: I think Anarchists could be a good recruitment pool
[27.09.2013 4:51:09] brutwurst: Oh, I agree
[27.09.2013 4:52:23] brutwurst: Generally if you see an Anarchist male who gets run out of the group for being a "manarchist" or offending the fags, that's an opportunity.
[27.09.2013 4:52:49] brutwurst: put on your white collar and jackboots and preach to him the beautiful ideas which kill.
[27.09.2013 4:53:40] brutwurst: I see it a lot, and it's becoming more common as the more masculine punks and rivetheads are being scrutinized and nagged at by the hairy-legged gender-neutral matriarchs
[27.09.2013 4:54:08] brutwurst: But this is just my area. I imagine in other cities it could be some other demographic that might be an ideal recruitment pool.

[27.09.2013 7:33:59] Александр Славрос: >American Fatherland?

would avoid that rethoric since thats the one for the preservation of something rather than cleaning the slate, unless you make a distinction that you imply something else. like, the fatherland not being the state established with corrupting ideas at the helm but the land that your fathers settled in their frontier life. That would open up some other narratives in propaganda.

>anarchist recruitment pool

you have to be extremely careful there, doing that can go either way: either you siphon out some rare good people or you open yourselves up to the poison getting into your veins

futurism likes the anarchist setting, but not the anarchist ideals, I made a point once that fascism would thrive in an anarchist setting because its not idealistic humanitarian and there is nothing to stop it from curbstomping other groups, this is how I went about looking into futurism

>being afraid of being found out

then you need to stop talking on the internet in plain text, i.e. literally saying stuff like lets march on the capitol building, big brother is most developed in the US so you should know not to use the internet for anything that you wouldn't put in a journal for distribution or on a poster anyway. Have to figure out alternative methods or use shit like TOR and establish a closed group in it for discussions, big brosis would still be there though. just can't trace

[27.09.2013 7:59:55] Blood and Iron: Reaktion needs a re-re-direction
[27.09.2013 8:00:10] Blood and Iron: a futuristic approach without Sons of Anarchy meets Sonichu
[27.09.2013 8:00:33] Blood and Iron: Futurist National Socialism
[27.09.2013 8:00:41] Blood and Iron: masculine vitalism
[27.09.2013 8:00:45] Александр Славрос: yeaah, again, my own task here is teaching you to fish, so once we establish this narrative (I mean the overall futurist narrative in america), that will essentially act as a compas, you can argue at any given time and place you'll already have an idea as to how to go about making an issue, we'll work out the kinks that are relevant to that specifically using that same narrative.

[27.09.2013 8:03:18] Могучий: Here we are just talking about the Narrative for a specific issue of reaktion
[27.09.2013 8:03:35] Могучий: not American futurism in general
[27.09.2013 8:03:39] Могучий: like what will Reaktion be about
[27.09.2013 8:03:44] Могучий: next issue
[27.09.2013 8:03:52] Александр Славрос: well you want it to be a journal of american futurism?
[27.09.2013 8:04:07] Могучий: yes, but what all do we need to throw into it
[27.09.2013 8:04:28] Могучий: this specific issue
[27.09.2013 8:04:54] Могучий: the skeleton
[27.09.2013 8:08:36] Могучий: I'm thinking an attack on all movements in America
-the strong man is mightiest when alone
-no more hugbox, everything must go
An attack on the history of America as not being truly Aryan
-founded on democracy
-not racially conscious
Attack on everything
-anti-Americanism
What is Futurism
-Masculine Vitalism
-Futurist NS
[27.09.2013 8:08:54] Александр Славрос: then you need to first know what your overall idea is, like I said, its a compass, a guide. From that you can take certain directions of futurism and for instance center an issue on them.

First issue of the new reaktion could be about the presentation of futurism, as in: here I am, fucking deal with it because some ideas just want to watch our society burn and such. This way you can put into the journal a lot of work that deals with understanding the overall narrative, like the manifesto, and then have articles expanding on some ideas.

And as a random thought: how about a "This is the enemy" segment in each issue or center some issues (once every blue moon or some interval between regular issues) on a specific enemy, not just like individuals but a problem or concept, that way you can focus issues on a general field and go into detail in individual arguments.
[27.09.2013 8:09:23] Александр Славрос: well there you go your skeleton already works towards that idea of the first issue being a statment, "here I am"
[27.09.2013 8:09:55] Александр Славрос: so thats a good direction to work with

ts a good angle with what brutwurst said about trying to adress the veterans. We know about governments in exile being a thing, but think back to Apocalypse Now - renegade officer. What idea can you derrive here?
[27.09.2013 8:39:23] Александр Славрос: as for what to read, obviously the italian futurist manifesto, jack donovan's articles provide a close narrative on tribalism, if you read his the way of men you'll get some additional inspiration, otherwise you also have shit like fight club's project mayham the way it is explained in the book as a good reference point

[27.09.2013 8:40:45] Александр Славрос: army-in-exile or a renagade army, that angle works much better because its a theme of a tribe, not a state, a mobile military feel to it, partizan theme, all sorts of good shit to come up with in that direction

[27.09.2013 8:57:43] Blood and Iron: oh, and Mein Kampf duh
[27.09.2013 8:58:01] Blood and Iron: fascism is taking on a new mantle
[27.09.2013 8:58:25] Blood and Iron: the game has changed, so we have to take on a more regional tribal approach
[27.09.2013 8:58:31] Blood and Iron: just the nature of the beast
[27.09.2013 9:01:53] Blood and Iron: etc etc

[28.09.2013 18:13:51] Александр Славрос: so here's the stuff I said was directly relevant, this is from Evola's "Bow and Club" book. Keep in mind this is me translating it into english so kind of meh but it gets the point across.

"American society is an extreme form of social order brought to absurdity"

"America, "a rotten country, each of its cells infected with cancer" - "passive nature (conformism), fear and longing - these are its 3 traits". In such an atmosphere the feelings of "disconnection from ones roots", loneliness in a "lonely crowd" are particularly vivid, thus the conclusion that can be drawn from this is that "society is a pointless word lacking meaning"."

"The beatnik rebellion is completely reactive (reactionary), it has no positive foundation, in other words a precise vision of a normal and sensible order or a firm comprehension of any founding principles."

"All the while a rightwing anarchist to the contrary, firmly understands what he wants and knows the foundation he stands on, as he declares "No" (to modern society)".

Don't fear the anarchist part in that, what he means by anarchist is just the desire to negate society as it is, however the rightwing anarchist is doesn't fight order for the sake of fighting order or for any type of liberty, like beatniks and anarkiddies do, those morons Evola calls "rebels without a banner" or "without a cause" i.e. they only riot to negate, not to establish something new. In this sense rightwing anarchist is a name for someone who is "riding the tiger" as evola called it (apparently some people called that book a manual for rightwing anarchists), he goes on saying that the appropriate reaction of a rightwing anarchist is dispassion and cold detachment. This is the path of an individual fascist of a higher order, however futurists are a movement, so your modus operandi is going to be what we discussed, however the same basis applies - you can't just negate, you must show you have a foundation that motivates you that isn't simply negation of things as they are (because then you are defined by what you negate), not negation for its own sake but negation in order to make way for what you believe in. But I advise to stay away from calling yourselves rightwing anarchists least you wish to be associated with troy southgate and his bulllshit. You can use it in rethoric but not as a name for yourselves.

In this same narrative you can't want or promote destruction for the sake of destruction or criminal activities for their own sake, all must be motivated by a higher purpose, quote junger "better be a criminal than a burger" (bourgoisie citizen).

And there's a big matter of self-discipline: "Young people must foremost educate in themselves a taste for self-discipline, voluntary self-discipline, in other words one that doesn't have anything to do with social and "pedagogical"  authority. We're talking about self-education in the most objective sense of the word. However, a certain difficulty arises here, because any education requires some values, as points of reference, all the while the rebelling youth denies all values, any sort of "morality" accepted in the existing society, the bourgeoisie one especially".

ALSO an interesting fact, there were real life Fight Clubs in central europe at one point organized by Korp-studenten, they called them Mensur or just "duels" or "fights". "cruel but not deadly duel conducted according specifically outlined rules (a sign of having been in such fights were the scars on ones face), their goal was to develop courage, fortitude, fearlessness, ability to endure physical pain, as well as adoption of high ethical values, a sense of honor and comradery".

also this:

"An excess of energy also often leads to various forms of "activism" in the socio-political sphere. In such cases one foremost needs to seriously analyze oneself in order to make sure that this desire for oppositional activity, for defending ideals that are opposite to those socially accepted is something more than just expelling excess energy (for this purpose under other conditions one could with equal success defend directly contrary ideals), in other words the point of reference and moving force is the true adherence to these ideals, born from accepting their internal value. Besides this there is another complication relevant to political activism. Even if the kind of young man we're talking about here does clearly understand what ideals he fights for, in the atmosphere that dominates today it will be difficult for him to find a political organization, party or group that trully and on principle defend similar ideals. On the other hand taking into account the circumstances that exist it is hard to believe that a struggle against the socio-political currents that rule today is capable of leading to significant success, but in the end this doesn't trully matter, because it is important to do that, which is just, and to be ready to fight even on lost ground. As such, no matter what, to prove through action your "presense" is always useful."

brutwurst

[03.10.2013 5:20:48] BCM: So what is this workshop going to work on? Any plans? The logs have lots of good ideas
[03.10.2013 5:22:59] brutwurst: Alex drafted up a rough manifesto sort of thing, which Jacob has been tooling with. I intend to have a go at it as well. For the next few months of my remaining active duty contract my online time is pretty limited, since I use what little free time I have on the weekends trying to learn stuff, know people, and stay skilled.
[03.10.2013 5:23:35] brutwurst: I'm not sure if manifesto is the big thing I have in mind, but something that provides a kind of grounding/reference point to move outward on.
[03.10.2013 5:24:20] BCM: I read the manifesto, it was good. Could be better though
[03.10.2013 5:25:44] brutwurst: Yeah, it's definitely in its rough/early stages from what I could tell. Not a bad thing necessarily, I was under the impression this is all still fairly new and coming together.
[03.10.2013 5:26:59] BCM: Yeah I feelya. Any idea when Horst's version will be ready
[03.10.2013 5:27:39] Blood and Iron: needs more Murrkans

[03.10.2013 13:30:09] Александр Славрос: One topic for you to consider btw is the overall approach of activism of american futurism
[03.10.2013 13:30:25] Александр Славрос: namely if you want to be a mass movement or an underground cell
[03.10.2013 13:30:38] Александр Славрос: difference is essentially public vs covert
[03.10.2013 13:31:25] Александр Славрос: in the first case you make a big deal out of your presense, posters everywhere, going to protests and starting shit, marches, rallies and so on
[03.10.2013 13:31:43] Александр Славрос: in the latter case you go closer to project mayham in the sense of "a need to know basis only"
[03.10.2013 13:32:31] Александр Славрос: so you selectively recruit people and integrate them into your group and go about your goals without publicity, in fact avoiding it
[03.10.2013 13:32:47] Александр Славрос: again, doesn't have to be anything criminal
[03.10.2013 13:33:02] Александр Славрос: but whatever disrupts normal order and peace
[03.10.2013 13:33:19] Александр Славрос: agitation is your essential goal in both approaches
[03.10.2013 13:33:28] Александр Славрос: causing anxiety and unrest
[03.10.2013 13:35:50] Александр Славрос: whatever the case I also suggest you go off the grid in terms of communication or use TOR, explore other alternatives
[03.10.2013 13:38:13] Александр Славрос: naturally would be best if you were all just in one place irl
[03.10.2013 13:39:59] Александр Славрос: but as it is your structural goal should be to have cells, each one organizing them where you are, once you develop, learn and understand your overall narrative, tactics and practice in general so that any communication afterwards wouldn't be concerned about practices of individual cells
[03.10.2013 13:40:19] Александр Славрос: don't discuss activism online is my point whatever way you want to go with it
[03.10.2013 13:43:21] Александр Славрос: another alternative in communication is of course code if you want to message each other online about something that shouldn't be seen by anyone else other than members
[03.10.2013 13:47:32] Александр Славрос: so yeah,  basically decide on your modus operandi
[03.10.2013 13:47:45] Александр Славрос: either you're behind the scenes or a bone in everyone's throat
[03.10.2013 13:48:31] Александр Славрос: one investment I suggest you go look into is getting hacker members
[03.10.2013 13:49:00] Александр Славрос: here some nationalist groups had hacker divisions that would take own degenerate or muslim/jewish websites
[03.10.2013 13:49:16] Александр Славрос: and leave up an image with their propaganda instead of the website
[03.10.2013 13:50:36] Александр Славрос: in your case you'd need to get hackers to follow your narrative and then let them loose so they can do whatever damage and you would have no control what so ever to tell them otherwise, i.e. have hackers be autonomous, that way  you're not responcible for their actions either way you go with your modus operandi
[03.10.2013 13:51:15] Александр Славрос: and you have a lot more websites to take down than we do so I imagine hackers would just love to do it for fun
[03.10.2013 13:54:29] Александр Славрос: or you could combine the modus operandi
[03.10.2013 13:54:32] Александр Славрос: have divisions
[03.10.2013 13:54:40] Александр Славрос: different action-orientated cells
[03.10.2013 13:54:57] Александр Славрос: and zero communication between them once they all agree on their pattern of action
[03.10.2013 13:55:04] Александр Славрос: one group cut loose to hack sites
[03.10.2013 13:55:10] Александр Славрос: one group cut loose for covert action
[03.10.2013 13:55:16] Александр Славрос: one group cut loose for public presense
[03.10.2013 13:55:34] Александр Славрос: could work for your Renegade Army theme
[03.10.2013 13:55:40] Александр Славрос: different branches
[03.10.2013 13:56:06] Александр Славрос: hackers - airforce
covert - marines
public presense - army
[03.10.2013 13:56:13] Александр Славрос: have individual symbols
[03.10.2013 13:56:24] Александр Славрос: just no centralized command
[03.10.2013 14:35:23] brutwurst: I will be working on some symbols, as I have some background in the arts.
[03.10.2013 14:36:06] Александр Славрос: already got you marked down as the head of the arts and crafts division of the renagade army

[04.10.2013 5:57:18] Blood and Iron: I don't believe Steven is in the Marines
[04.10.2013 5:57:36] Steven F ツ₪: you would be correct
[04.10.2013 5:59:26] Steven F ツ₪: so you think that american nationalism is possible?
[04.10.2013 5:59:35] brutwurst: Oh, nah, I do bitch work in garrison B&I
[04.10.2013 5:59:55] Steven F ツ₪: there is no official religion, common ethnicity, or even language
[04.10.2013 5:59:57] brutwurst: Shit, gotta run. Catch up with you all later.
[04.10.2013 6:00:00] Steven F ツ₪: cya man
[04.10.2013 6:00:45] Blood and Iron: well we do have English
[04.10.2013 6:00:52] Blood and Iron: fuck the mexi-hangers on
[04.10.2013 6:01:01] Blood and Iron: me
[04.10.2013 6:01:05] Blood and Iron: I'm all for secession
[04.10.2013 6:01:06] Blood and Iron: separatism
[04.10.2013 6:01:15] Blood and Iron: I have no illusion about keeping the union
[04.10.2013 6:01:20] Blood and Iron: because it's a detriment
[04.10.2013 6:01:35] Steven F ツ₪: yeah I can understand that, but a pan-american nationalism or anything seems impossible
[04.10.2013 6:01:44] Blood and Iron: Anglo-Saxon Germano-Celtic master race power
[04.10.2013 6:01:58] Blood and Iron: well that's defeatist eh?
[04.10.2013 6:02:03] Blood and Iron: shouldn't Canadians give up then?
[04.10.2013 6:02:11] Blood and Iron: Australians, New Zealanders, etc.?
[04.10.2013 6:02:30] Blood and Iron: a mass immigration to Europe is a silly idea
[04.10.2013 6:02:35] Blood and Iron: we took this land
[04.10.2013 6:02:36] Steven F ツ₪: yeah
[04.10.2013 6:02:47] Blood and Iron: and only through blood will we retain any of it
[04.10.2013 6:03:17] Steven F ツ₪: what do you think about the NWF idea then
[04.10.2013 6:03:18] Blood and Iron: but I'm all for partitioning the current U.S. among the various ethnicities/races

[04.10.2013 6:07:49] BCM: Why u giving your land away white man
[04.10.2013 6:07:57] BCM: Why no spine white man
[04.10.2013 6:08:08] Blood and Iron: cauuuuuse Balkanization is inevitable if this pattern continues
[04.10.2013 6:08:29] Blood and Iron: I don't count on the scooter burger profligates of our country to rise up and realize the error of their ways
[04.10.2013 6:08:34] Blood and Iron: so it has to get worse
[04.10.2013 6:08:41] Blood and Iron: then we can partition this poisonous union
[04.10.2013 6:08:48] BCM: Balkanization is curable with deportations and cleansing
[04.10.2013 6:09:23] Steven F ツ₪: its not possible when the federal government will inevitable subsidize housing for niggers in your white paradise
[04.10.2013 6:09:41] BCM: Well that's why the government has to go
[04.10.2013 6:10:01] BCM: Not just change, but go, that's what this whole futurism thing is about
[04.10.2013 6:10:38] Steven F ツ₪: so you wish to create a city-state like system?
[04.10.2013 6:11:04] Steven F ツ₪: where only when they are under threat of a common enemy they unite?
[04.10.2013 6:11:54] Blood and Iron: me?
[04.10.2013 6:12:06] Steven F ツ₪: the idea of futurism in general
[04.10.2013 6:12:30] Steven F ツ₪: or is it more libertarian
[04.10.2013 6:12:36] Blood and Iron: no, my beliefs on American separatism doesn't have to do with futurism
[04.10.2013 6:12:47] Blood and Iron: futurism doesn't really touch on ACTUAL governmental policies
[04.10.2013 6:13:02] Steven F ツ₪: from what I understand it is more of a social thing

[06.10.2013 13:15:55] BCM: reading the manifesto in-depth
[06.10.2013 13:16:03] BCM: it would make a great anarchist manifesto
[06.10.2013 13:16:40] Александр Славрос: because the mid-goal of futurism and the end goal of anarchism are essentially the same
[06.10.2013 13:16:50] Александр Славрос: difference arises once you clean the slate
[06.10.2013 13:17:08] Александр Славрос: futurism allows things to rebuild from the ground up, anarchism will oppose any such thing
[06.10.2013 13:17:25] BCM: OK let me play devil's advocate for a second
[06.10.2013 13:17:36] BCM: the United States does not exist in a vacuum
[06.10.2013 13:17:38] Александр Славрос: not that it really matters, anarkids are the first to die in real anarchy
[06.10.2013 13:17:47 | Изменены 13:17:57] Александр Славрос: obviously it doesn't
[06.10.2013 13:18:04] BCM: if Futurism succeeds other economic powers will "fill in" the slate
[06.10.2013 13:18:41] Александр Славрос: don't get the emphathis on economic considering the destruction of economy that goes with destruction of society as it is
[06.10.2013 13:18:52] Александр Славрос: but the danger of your neighbours doing something is what
[06.10.2013 13:19:10] BCM: our neighbors aren't the problem
[06.10.2013 13:19:22] Александр Славрос: alaska and hawaii might claim independence or be taken over because not connected to the mainland
[06.10.2013 13:19:35] BCM: the Eurozone and China would seek to recoup the losses they will face in an American chaos
[06.10.2013 13:20:06] BCM: Europe is weak but money motivates it's elite more than anything
[06.10.2013 13:20:51] Александр Славрос: futurism doesn't exist in vacuum either. Its supposed to be a part of a greater struggle against the modern world at large
[06.10.2013 13:21:09] Александр Славрос: so while futurists work on america, fascists have to keep up in europe, or visa versa as far as keeping up goes
[06.10.2013 13:21:47] Александр Славрос: to an extent we face the same issues the bolsheviks did in the early XXth century
[06.10.2013 13:21:56] BCM: wasn't this the fatal flaw in Bolshevism? that it could only work in a global setting
[06.10.2013 13:22:08] Александр Славрос: >come to power
>surrounded by enemies
>have to spread idea elsewhere to have more allies
[06.10.2013 13:22:12] BCM: this weakness is even more apparent in futurism
[06.10.2013 13:22:21] Александр Славрос: thats the flaw with communism
[06.10.2013 13:22:38] Александр Славрос: bolshevism is a different phenomenon but yes it upheld officially the communist dogma
[06.10.2013 13:22:47] BCM: communism could at least cope in the end with that flaw
[06.10.2013 13:22:52] BCM: futurism wouldn't be able to
[06.10.2013 13:22:54] Александр Славрос: once it was obvious that no global setting is feasable they moved to socialism in one state
[06.10.2013 13:23:20] Александр Славрос: and then made that state into a superpower that got half of the world in its corner of the ring with US having the others in its corner
[06.10.2013 13:23:58] BCM: OK but you aren't addressing my point that Futurism can't cope with that flaw like communism could
[06.10.2013 13:24:05 | Изменены 13:24:21] BCM: there is no anarchism-in-one-state
[06.10.2013 13:24:18] Александр Славрос: and like I said
[06.10.2013 13:24:25] Александр Славрос: futurism is part of a bigger narrative
[06.10.2013 13:24:32] Александр Славрос: the overall fascist struggle against the modern world
[06.10.2013 13:24:40] Александр Славрос: the problem is coordination
[06.10.2013 13:24:56] Александр Славрос: ergo why I said that its about fascists and futurists  keeping up with each other
[06.10.2013 13:25:11] Александр Славрос: in a sense its the same as the communist global revolution narrative
[06.10.2013 13:25:16] Александр Славрос: however
[06.10.2013 13:25:24] BCM: the fact that a global overrall struggle is required, you don't view that as a serious flaw?
[06.10.2013 13:25:31] Александр Славрос: it would be more prudent for fascists states to arise in europe before futurism in the US
[06.10.2013 13:25:48] Александр Славрос: but once they do appear and as more of them appear futurism would have to act faster
[06.10.2013 13:25:58] Александр Славрос: >flaw
[06.10.2013 13:26:14] Александр Славрос: we're in a global overall struggle regardless
[06.10.2013 13:26:17] Александр Славрос: its not required
[06.10.2013 13:26:19] Александр Славрос: its the point
[06.10.2013 13:26:44] Александр Славрос: if you get fascist states in Europe they have to deal with neighbours and USA
[06.10.2013 13:27:05] Александр Славрос: if you get futurists in USA you deal with the UN rearing its head
[06.10.2013 13:27:29] Александр Славрос: and the stakes are the highest for us Russians
[06.10.2013 13:27:35] Александр Славрос: if we get another civil war
[06.10.2013 13:27:54] Александр Славрос: we'll have both USA and NATO forces invading us to "protect the nuclear weapons from terrorists"
[06.10.2013 13:28:08] Александр Славрос: and then we'll be in danger of never recovering
[06.10.2013 13:28:36] Александр Славрос: economy would be subservient to foreign interests, souveregnty would be lost if we're not balkanized all-together
[06.10.2013 13:28:57] BCM: well yeah that would be bad for Russia
[06.10.2013 13:29:36] BCM: from an American nationalist perspective I could care less what happens in Europe
[06.10.2013 13:29:54] BCM: true fascism in Europe would face immediate American reprisal
[06.10.2013 13:30:18] BCM: so in order for fascism to come to America it has to come in Europe first, but for it to come in Europe it has to come in America first
[06.10.2013 13:30:46] BCM: it sounds like if anything, futurism serves to destroy America so that Europe may live
[06.10.2013 13:30:59] BCM: something not all American nationalists might be comfortable with
[06.10.2013 13:31:22] Александр Славрос: yeah this is a global endevor and  it can't be otherwise. Anyone who thinks they'll just make a fascist state that will stand alone is an idiot, but we do have the framework for the better solutions, like Europe a nation, Russia returning its imperial control over former lands, futurism to negate US involvement and clean the slate for one of the most desperately "modern" countries in the world (modern in the sense of lacking tradition and cultivating concepts that errode tradition)
[06.10.2013 13:31:30] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:30] BCM:

<<< it sounds like if anything, futurism serves to destroy America so that Europe may live>destroy america
[06.10.2013 13:31:37] Александр Славрос: what are we destroying then
[06.10.2013 13:31:51] Александр Славрос: your federal state system?
[06.10.2013 13:31:55] Александр Славрос: the banking system?
[06.10.2013 13:31:57] BCM: as a power, as an entity
[06.10.2013 13:32:07] BCM: you were concerned about the fall of Russian power
[06.10.2013 13:32:10] BCM: same deal
[06.10.2013 13:32:26] Александр Славрос: so a degenerate entity is better than cleaning the slate to make a real traditional entity?
[06.10.2013 13:32:35] Александр Славрос: there is a difference
[06.10.2013 13:32:43] Александр Славрос: who the fuck would try to do shit to the US
[06.10.2013 13:32:57] BCM: American soil and power in and of itself is not degenerate
[06.10.2013 13:33:00] Александр Славрос: people are lining up for Russia to fall including the US
[06.10.2013 13:33:02] BCM: the State is degenerate
[06.10.2013 13:33:31] Александр Славрос: nobody has same prospects for the US believing that its not going anywhere and even if it does they'll be more concerned with economic reprecautions of that development
[06.10.2013 13:33:54] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:33] BCM:

<<< the State is degenerateand thats the seat of your soil and power
[06.10.2013 13:34:11] Александр Славрос: thats all you have in your history, the state. There is no unifying ethnic culture, its a unifying state culture
[06.10.2013 13:34:20] Александр Славрос: partially why nationalism is impossible in USA
[06.10.2013 13:34:28] Александр Славрос: hence why you instead coined white nationalism
[06.10.2013 13:34:31] Александр Славрос: as a broader term
[06.10.2013 13:34:42] Александр Славрос: to be more inclusive than one ethnicity
[06.10.2013 13:35:02] Александр Славрос: you can't pull german nazi schtick in the US "THE IRISH ARE THE TRUE OWNERS OF AMERICA"
[06.10.2013 13:35:07] Александр Славрос: that just sounds retarded
[06.10.2013 13:35:15] Александр Славрос: no matter what ethnicity you put in that sentence
[06.10.2013 13:35:28] BCM: well the best possible end result of a successful futurist agenda would be exactly that, a white nationalist state
[06.10.2013 13:35:50] BCM: germans wont form their own america next to irish america
[06.10.2013 13:35:57] Александр Славрос: the best end result of a successful futurist agenda would be a traditional, organic state
[06.10.2013 13:36:12] BCM: yes but that doesn't even sound possible
[06.10.2013 13:36:15] Александр Славрос: that would exist over the entire territory of mainland usa
[06.10.2013 13:36:27] Александр Славрос: and exist as one of the new major fascist powers in the world
[06.10.2013 13:36:57 | Удалены 13:37:13] BCM: Сообщение удалено.
[06.10.2013 13:37:42] BCM: the way you describe a trad, org state that's literally impossible in America
[06.10.2013 13:37:45] Александр Славрос: soil at this point is connected to the frontier narrative as far as the futurist framework is concerned
[06.10.2013 13:37:55] Александр Славрос: this land is our land because we lived the frontier life
[06.10.2013 13:38:15] Александр Славрос: I didnt' even attempt to describe a trad org state
[06.10.2013 13:38:32] BCM: you implied the requirement of a unifying ethnic culture
[06.10.2013 13:38:39] Александр Славрос: ...
[06.10.2013 13:38:41] Александр Славрос: no
[06.10.2013 13:38:56] Александр Славрос: I said that as an argument as to why there is no such thing as american nationalism
[06.10.2013 13:39:14] Александр Славрос: not in the ethnic sense of nationalism
[06.10.2013 13:39:45] Александр Славрос: if you go by original liberal nationalism then yeah, its civic nationalism, in which case every jap, every chink, every slav, every nignog and every white that get US citizenship are americans
[06.10.2013 13:39:59] Александр Славрос: but thats the official US policy as it is
[06.10.2013 13:40:08] BCM: OK
[06.10.2013 13:40:50] BCM: but this can all be done with a fascist or social-nationalist narrative
[06.10.2013 13:41:15] Александр Славрос: what can be done
[06.10.2013 13:41:20] Александр Славрос: what
[06.10.2013 13:41:25] Александр Славрос: taking over USA?
[06.10.2013 13:41:30] Александр Славрос: infiltrating the state?
[06.10.2013 13:41:34] BCM: no
[06.10.2013 13:41:34] Александр Славрос: winning elections?
[06.10.2013 13:41:37] Александр Славрос: revolution?
[06.10.2013 13:41:38 | Изменены 13:41:44] BCM: destroying the state
[06.10.2013 13:41:45] Александр Славрос: and then?
[06.10.2013 13:41:50] BCM: replacing it
[06.10.2013 13:41:53] Александр Славрос: uhuh
[06.10.2013 13:41:56] BCM: rather than destroying it and hoping
[06.10.2013 13:41:57] Александр Славрос: here's the point
[06.10.2013 13:42:06] Александр Славрос: you don't have a tradition
[06.10.2013 13:42:23] Александр Славрос: for it to appear naturally in a place that never had it to begin with
[06.10.2013 13:42:27] Александр Славрос: you have to start from scratch
[06.10.2013 13:42:36] BCM: but anarchy and occupation won't give us tradition
[06.10.2013 13:42:46] Александр Славрос: anarchy will
[06.10.2013 13:42:51] Александр Славрос: occupation is a long shot
[06.10.2013 13:43:02] BCM: if there's a long enough period of anarchy, I'd agree
[06.10.2013 13:43:14] Александр Славрос: the bigger question is your own nuclear arsenal that will raise eyebrows in the world community
[06.10.2013 13:43:32] Александр Славрос: so who's to say that you can't have the long enough period
[06.10.2013 13:43:56] BCM: it's a longshot
[06.10.2013 13:44:05] Александр Славрос: everything we do is a longshot
[06.10.2013 13:44:10] BCM: a longshot of a longshot
[06.10.2013 13:44:16] Александр Славрос: go big or go home
[06.10.2013 13:44:19] BCM: an unnecessarily long longshot
[06.10.2013 13:44:24] Александр Славрос: >unnecessarily
[06.10.2013 13:44:34] Александр Славрос: go ahead and prove to yanks how nazism is the way to go then
[06.10.2013 13:44:47] BCM: I'm not advocating that
[06.10.2013 13:44:49] Александр Славрос: join the NSM and fix it from the inside then
[06.10.2013 13:44:51] Александр Славрос: something
[06.10.2013 13:44:53] BCM: lol
[06.10.2013 13:45:10] BCM: Americans don't even know what nazism is
[06.10.2013 13:45:15] BCM: the NSM doesn't even know what nazism is
[06.10.2013 13:45:35] Александр Славрос: futurism as a narrative works in the US because it plays to what the average joe thinks about, le big government, the ebil market and so on and so forth, ebil surveilance etc
[06.10.2013 13:45:50] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:45] BCM:

<<< Americans don't even know what nazism isbut soon as you give them the word
[06.10.2013 13:45:56] Александр Славрос: they will judge you based on it
[06.10.2013 13:46:29] Александр Славрос: its preconcieved notions about something that has no roots in american history
[06.10.2013 13:46:34] Александр Славрос: not only is it an enemy
[06.10.2013 13:46:36] Александр Славрос: it is alien
[06.10.2013 13:46:37] BCM: if something as nakedly anarchist as futurism would play then why is anarchism still so unpopular
[06.10.2013 13:46:55] Александр Славрос: >why is anarchism still so unpopular
[06.10.2013 13:46:58] Александр Славрос: you know why
[06.10.2013 13:47:23] BCM: so you think injecting discipline and normal people into anarchism it'll succeed
[06.10.2013 13:47:51] Александр Славрос: this is the face of modern yank anarchism http://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/images/library/intersectionality.png
[06.10.2013 13:48:11] BCM: lol
[06.10.2013 13:48:17] Александр Славрос: fighting against ebil oppression of faggots, trans, women, blacks etc
[06.10.2013 13:48:36] Александр Славрос: its a melting pot of self-entitled degenerate schmucks
[06.10.2013 13:48:46] Александр Славрос: DONT TRIGGER ME BRO
[06.10.2013 13:48:49] BCM: lol
[06.10.2013 13:48:55] Александр Славрос: the rallying call of american anarchists
[06.10.2013 13:49:12] Александр Славрос: the idea with futurism in its connection to tribalism is pushing forth the contrary to that
[06.10.2013 13:49:19] Александр Славрос: manhood, gender roles, etc
[06.10.2013 13:50:01] BCM: isn't a more masculine anarchism the idea behind your mortal enemies, Nat-An
[06.10.2013 13:50:29] Александр Славрос: it is the unholy horror to every american conservative and anarchist
Conservatives: "conservative" values WITH ANARCHISM???? NUUU
Anarchists: anarchism with "CONSERVATIVE" VALUES???? NUUUU
[06.10.2013 13:50:50] Александр Славрос: NAM are retards
[06.10.2013 13:51:06] Александр Славрос: NAM proposes tribalism in a way that is still leftist
[06.10.2013 13:51:21] Александр Славрос: southgate literally wrote in his manifesto that there can be faggot tribes
[06.10.2013 13:51:28] Александр Славрос: and their goal is perma-tribalism
[06.10.2013 13:51:30] Александр Славрос: like forever
[06.10.2013 13:51:32] Александр Славрос: thats the end goal
[06.10.2013 13:51:37] BCM: ok
[06.10.2013 13:51:39] Александр Славрос: in futurism it is a stepping stone
[06.10.2013 13:51:51] Александр Славрос: destroy the modern world to make way for cultivation of traditional world
[06.10.2013 13:51:54] Александр Славрос: in essense
[06.10.2013 13:51:55] BCM: in futurism it *hopefully* is a stepping stone
[06.10.2013 13:52:02] Александр Славрос: it is a call for destruction for the sake of creation
[06.10.2013 13:52:09] Александр Славрос: create anarchy! build an empire!
[06.10.2013 13:52:22] Александр Славрос: that's how futurism goes
[06.10.2013 13:52:22] BCM: as if that's the only outcome of anarchy
[06.10.2013 13:52:36] Александр Славрос: no, thats the goal of anarchy caused by futurists
[06.10.2013 13:52:58] BCM: anarchy is uncontrollable, caused by futurists or caused by peak oil is the same thing
[06.10.2013 13:53:05] BCM: once they get the ball rolling it's out of their hands
[06.10.2013 13:53:52] Александр Славрос: once the futurist movement creates this anarchy it can move to start building an empire, anarchy is not uncontrolable, it is but a vacume of power, that demands to be filled
[06.10.2013 13:54:16] Александр Славрос: this is why I pointed out some games and movies for you lot to have the idea sink in better
[06.10.2013 13:54:39] Александр Славрос: >cause anarchy
>medieval rules apply
>begin creating Legion from fallout
[06.10.2013 13:54:47] Александр Славрос: not literally but figuratively
[06.10.2013 13:55:22] BCM: . Real freedom allows us to sort each other out, whoever comes out victorious by imposing his will, be it through manipulation, coercion or force, affirms his freedom – no state, no lawyers, no third parties. You and me, here and now.
[06.10.2013 13:55:50] BCM: This sounds rather anarchist, and it's presented as the preferred outcome
[06.10.2013 13:55:52] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:54] Александр Славрос:

<<< >medieval rules apply
[06.10.2013 13:56:10] Александр Славрос: yeah that is the presentation
[06.10.2013 13:56:11] BCM: But you're promising this, this is what futurists footsoldiers will want
[06.10.2013 13:56:26] BCM: forever
[06.10.2013 13:56:27] Александр Славрос: move to the bit where I talk about movements forming
[06.10.2013 13:57:10] BCM: I see that
[06.10.2013 13:57:35] Александр Славрос: sorting each other out inevitably leads to formation of hierarchy
[06.10.2013 13:57:43] BCM: but it is still presenting a chaotic world, the enemies of futurism can take advantage of those rules as much as the futurists
[06.10.2013 13:57:44] Александр Славрос: groups then sort each other out as well
[06.10.2013 13:57:48] Александр Славрос: forming bigger hierarchies
[06.10.2013 13:58:11] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:57] BCM:

<<<  the enemies of futurism can take advantage of those rules as much as the futurists
[06.10.2013 13:58:15] Александр Славрос: oh noes
[06.10.2013 13:58:21] Александр Славрос: you'll have to fight off women of color
[06.10.2013 13:58:23] Александр Славрос: and fags
[06.10.2013 13:58:24] Александр Славрос: and trans
[06.10.2013 13:58:30] BCM: that's quite the leap
[06.10.2013 13:58:48] Александр Славрос: well what other enemies do you imagine
[06.10.2013 13:58:56] Александр Славрос: state?
[06.10.2013 13:59:02] Александр Славрос: not an issue at that stage
[06.10.2013 13:59:07] Александр Славрос: companies?
[06.10.2013 13:59:13] Александр Славрос: will crumble
[06.10.2013 13:59:26] BCM: there will be restorationists, private fiefdoms, foreign puppets
[06.10.2013 13:59:27] Александр Славрос: any other economic interests?
>what economy
[06.10.2013 13:59:45] Александр Славрос: good, so fight them
[06.10.2013 14:00:02] Александр Славрос: we're fighting an uphill battle with big brothers worldwide
[06.10.2013 14:00:15] Александр Славрос: and you're now presenting concern over the struggle on a leveled playing field
[06.10.2013 14:00:34] BCM: no fascist movement even won on a leveled playing field
[06.10.2013 14:01:12] Александр Славрос: http://wesleying.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Power-and-control-color.jpg wtf am i looking at /results for intersectionality search on google/
[06.10.2013 14:01:22] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 14:00] BCM:

<<< no fascist movement even won on a leveled playing fieldever or in this century?
[06.10.2013 14:01:30] Александр Славрос: if ever then we know thats not true
[06.10.2013 14:01:34] Александр Славрос: if in this century
[06.10.2013 14:01:35] BCM: example?
[06.10.2013 14:01:42] Александр Славрос: of >ever?
[06.10.2013 14:01:44] BCM: yes
[06.10.2013 14:01:48] Александр Славрос: nazis and fascists, like, literally
[06.10.2013 14:01:55] Александр Славрос: nazi germany and fascist italy
[06.10.2013 14:02:06] BCM: nazis and fascists worked in coalitions with conservatives before overthrowing the state
[06.10.2013 14:02:18] BCM: they didn't fight the state
[06.10.2013 14:02:25] BCM: not physically
[06.10.2013 14:03:15] Александр Славрос: different places, different cultures, ethnical unity and most importantly - tradition to stand on
[06.10.2013 14:03:30] Александр Славрос: so yeah they didn't have to fight the state physically
[06.10.2013 14:03:39] Александр Славрос: was a different time with different conditions as well
[06.10.2013 14:03:48] Александр Славрос: the states could actually be infiltrated back then
[06.10.2013 14:04:00] Александр Славрос: very little possibility for that nowadays
[06.10.2013 14:04:09] Александр Славрос: but if modern examples go
[06.10.2013 14:04:13] Александр Славрос: Golden Dawn
[06.10.2013 14:04:24] Александр Славрос: leveled out the playing field quite nicely for themselves
[06.10.2013 14:04:35] BCM: we'll see how that works out for them
[06.10.2013 14:04:46] Александр Славрос: do you see how it is working out for them now?
[06.10.2013 14:05:06] BCM: they're in a position lots of fascist movements have been in
[06.10.2013 14:05:11] BCM: not all march to victory
[06.10.2013 14:05:19] Александр Славрос: they're one of the most inspiring movements right now, the only way to get rid of them at this point is physically, something the officials can't do least they loose their charade of democracy and etc
[06.10.2013 14:05:42] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 14:05] BCM:

<<< they're in a position lots of fascist movements have been in>not taking into account conditions
[06.10.2013 14:05:54] Александр Славрос: past movements have been there in the past becasue it was easier back then
[06.10.2013 14:06:03] Александр Славрос: nowadays its neigh impossible
[06.10.2013 14:06:13] Александр Славрос: without turning into schmucks like Nick Griffin
[06.10.2013 14:06:29] Александр Славрос: but GD managed to pull it off without loosing face
[06.10.2013 14:07:03] BCM: conditions in Greece today are not that different than say, Italy 1930
[06.10.2013 14:07:20] BCM: Greece is also a very different scenario than Britain
[06.10.2013 14:07:38] Александр Славрос: there is a vast lefitst movement outside of  parliament that can cause a general strike for the golden dawn to put down by force?
[06.10.2013 14:07:41] Александр Славрос: also
[06.10.2013 14:07:45] Александр Славрос: >Italy, 1930
[06.10.2013 14:07:51] Александр Славрос: Fascists were already in power in 1930
[06.10.2013 14:07:58] BCM: you know what I mean
[06.10.2013 14:08:04] Александр Славрос: for years in fact
[06.10.2013 14:08:29] BCM: leftist movements in greece were causing plenty of problems before GD rose

[06.10.2013 14:08:54] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 14:08] BCM:

<<< leftist movements in greece were causing plenty of problems before GD roseyeah they were literally in power
[06.10.2013 14:09:45] Александр Славрос: like I keep saying, comparing things regardless of context is futile, there are many variables: history, culture, ethnic makeup, presense/absense of tradition etc
[06.10.2013 14:10:48] BCM: OK
[06.10.2013 14:11:30 | Изменены 14:11:41] BCM: [6 октября 2013 г. 13:45] Александр Славрос:

<<< futurism as a narrative works in the US because it plays to what the average joe thinks about, le big government, the ebil market and so on and so forth, ebil surveilance etcwhy can't a new social-nationalism play to that as well? why anarchism?
[06.10.2013 14:11:45] Александр Славрос: we need to get swiss citizenship, they want to just give people 2700 dollars a month for nothing
[06.10.2013 14:11:55] BCM: lol
[06.10.2013 14:12:31] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 14:11] BCM:

<<< why can't a new social-nationalism play to that as well? why anarchism?>social-nationalism
>wut r u
>a strasserite? rhomist?

Because we already know its didn't work
[06.10.2013 14:12:39] Александр Славрос: Rockwell was your best shot at it ever
[06.10.2013 14:12:42] BCM: well GD is social-nationalist
[06.10.2013 14:12:45] Александр Славрос: that will never come again
[06.10.2013 14:12:49] Александр Славрос: ...
[06.10.2013 14:12:52] Александр Славрос: GD is greece
[06.10.2013 14:12:54] Александр Славрос: tradition
[06.10.2013 14:13:01] Александр Славрос: also they had a Fascist leader in the past
[06.10.2013 14:13:02] Александр Славрос: so
[06.10.2013 14:13:05] Александр Славрос: >
[06.10.2013 14:13:09] Александр Славрос: >history
[06.10.2013 14:13:10] Александр Славрос: >cultury
[06.10.2013 14:13:12] Александр Славрос: >tradition
[06.10.2013 14:13:21] BCM: obviously it can't be a carbon copy
[06.10.2013 14:13:27] Александр Славрос: >cultury

cutlery
[06.10.2013 14:13:35] BCM: American fascism would have to much farther in its destruction
[06.10.2013 14:13:47] BCM: that doesn't make it ridiculous
[06.10.2013 14:14:27] BCM: A futurism-inspired nationalism can't be anymore of a longshot than futurism itself
[06.10.2013 14:14:40] Александр Славрос: american futurism IS american fascism, futurism is a variation of fascism
[06.10.2013 14:14:52] Александр Славрос: what nationalism
[06.10.2013 14:14:53] BCM: get outta here
[06.10.2013 14:15:08] BCM: there isn't a bit of fascism in the futurist manifesto
[06.10.2013 14:15:24] Александр Славрос: >do you even know what fascism is
[06.10.2013 14:15:31 | Изменены 14:15:38] BCM: it doesn't seem to want to build anything, aside from hoping that something fascist arises out of anarchy
[06.10.2013 14:16:12] BCM: >hoping
[06.10.2013 14:16:43] Александр Славрос: you can't build something without destroying something first
[06.10.2013 14:16:50] Александр Славрос: ergo futurism clears the way
[06.10.2013 14:16:53] Александр Славрос: that is its purpose
[06.10.2013 14:16:59] Александр Славрос: overdrive crash and burn
[06.10.2013 14:17:05] Александр Славрос: and then one can rebuild
[06.10.2013 14:17:12] BCM: I see that
[06.10.2013 14:17:40] BCM: but that's like demolishing a building hoping the tenants can figure out how to put it back together better
[06.10.2013 14:18:02] BCM: the uncertainty in the ideology is unsettling
[06.10.2013 14:18:02] Александр Славрос: what are you even arguing for at this point because your argument was "why can't X be futurism?"
[06.10.2013 14:18:08] Александр Славрос: are we arguing names here now?
[06.10.2013 14:18:15] Александр Славрос: >why can't national-socialism/fascism do the same
[06.10.2013 14:18:29] Александр Славрос: are we arguing titles or methods at this point
[06.10.2013 14:18:30] BCM: I'm arguing that futurism is basically just a hopeful wish
[06.10.2013 14:18:54] BCM: at least futurism in its present stage
[06.10.2013 14:18:58] Александр Славрос: thus I assume you have a sure-fire plan instead?
[06.10.2013 14:21:59] BCM: I can't say I do, but committing to destruction alone is many times worse, especially when said destruction still doesn't even give a good chance of a favorable outcome, and outcomes even worse than the status quo are just as possible.
[06.10.2013 14:22:29] BCM: it's a hopeful wish wrapped in C4
[06.10.2013 14:23:44] Александр Славрос: >outcomes even worse than the status quo
>better to be a degenerate transfag worried about triggering someone rather than cleaning the slate

>committing to destruction alone
Go back to my other posts in here when I translated a bunch of stuff from Evola talking about this, destruction for destruction's sake is what anarchists do because they exist out of negation, futurism exists out of the desire to make way for something new to be built
[06.10.2013 14:24:33] BCM: So a desire is what separates an anarchist from a futurist, then

[06.10.2013 14:24:52] BCM: Different motivations for the same outcome
[06.10.2013 14:25:23] Александр Славрос: [6 октября 2013 г. 14:24] BCM:

<<< So a desire is what separates an anarchist from a futurist, then[6 октября 2013 г. 14:24] BCM:

<<< Different motivations for the same outcome
no, the end-goals are different, pay attention, what is an end-goal for anarchists is a stepping stone for futurists
[06.10.2013 14:25:36] Александр Славрос: we've been over this just now
[06.10.2013 14:44:26 | Изменены 14:53:19] BCM: The futurism manifesto doesn't envision very much past the anarchy stage. You'd be leaving the futurist organization/movement/party/whatever, a group of people based on the single mission of destruction, to contruct a hopefully fascist state with no ideological guidance, based on some airey Evolan philosophical principle that the outcome can only be better in the grand scheme of things, when there are several scenarios of American anarchy where the outcome can be much worse. It's a leap of faith into a philosophy that many don't even agree with in the first place. Americans aren't motivated by the grand scheme of things,  look at our debt, the way we treat the environment, the way we burn oil... if things won't change for ourselves or for our children then we couldn't care less. Except in the extreme long-term, implying Evolan theory is correct, there are way more short-term negative outcomes in an anarchy scenario than short-term good ones. A solution is of course for the futurist movement to have a solid, laid out constructive agenda alongside it's call for the destruction of the State, but that would bypass the anarchy-stage requirement completely, seeing as the ultimate goal of futurism is power and the replacement of the State. Anarchy would then be a theoretically avoidable byproduct of the destruction and replacement of the State rather than a necessary "stepping stone" like it's presented.
[06.10.2013 14:45:08] BCM: This is all I have to say for today, I gotta sleep.
[06.10.2013 14:54:12] Александр Славрос: you can include that in the manifesto if you want but thats why I brought up what modus operandi you lot want to use, its directly relevant to what you do and don't advertise, obviously same people who are in the futurist movement become the movement to establish a fascist state, its the next stage ffs. There is no need for 'ideological' guidance just knowledge of tradition and medieval political realism practice. There is nothing >airey about the principles, I gave you just enough to see futurism's place in that narrative, if you want the full story then by all means it'll be in my book and a possible video. If you are worried about outcomes then you're still wrong because if you do nothing you'll decay into shit, if you try to infiltrate the system you'll fail, if you try to exist outside of society then why bother with anything at all, just move to other countries and help local fascist movements. Futurism creates a fighting chance for something better but you swat it away because of possible outcomes - no fucking shit, in our line of "work" we might all be killed, did you see that outcome? YOu stand for what it is right not for whats practicle and has better outcomes, because if you're concerned about outcomes then why not be individualist about it and concern yourself only with your personal outcomes? Things as they are your outcomes are solidified, futurism is what shifts the situation enough to give you a possible fascist outcome. >many people don't even agree with, except all fascists are motivated by it regardless, that's what I've been studying. And no fucking shit yanks don't care for grand schemes, thats why I never bothered to give you more about the grand scheme of things, only futurism itself as a narrative for possible american fascism. And you don't care even about things changing for your children, your debts are their debts.
[06.10.2013 14:54:36] Александр Славрос: the anarchy step is necessery because it provides the grounds for a tradition to form
[06.10.2013 14:55:01] Александр Славрос: miss that you'll just create another synthetic knockoff, fairly much the same as before, just parodying something different
[06.10.2013 14:55:37] Александр Славрос: fear of anarchy is also funny considering how thats the whole point of futurism to make it appealing in the american mindset
[06.10.2013 14:55:42] Александр Славрос: not anarchy for anarchy's sake
[06.10.2013 14:55:51] Александр Славрос: but anarchy as a >setting<
[06.10.2013 14:58:35] Александр Славрос: fearing outcomes in a leveled playing field is a weird concern too, because then your goal is to win, like in any battle, thats like saying that "oh no fascist revolution might fail because the commies have just as many chances at taking over as we do, might as well go home"
[06.10.2013 22:18:10] Blood and Iron: >BCM
>Still thinking this state is workeable
>Still thinking the collapse of the union wouldn't benefit us
[06.10.2013 22:18:14] Blood and Iron: I remember when I was 13
[06.10.2013 22:18:29] Александр Славрос: he was playing the devil's advocate
[06.10.2013 22:18:39] Александр Славрос: consider it an exercise in narrative
[06.10.2013 22:19:04] Blood and Iron: no, 300 lines of argument seems srs business to me
[06.10.2013 22:19:13] Александр Славрос: perhaps
[06.10.2013 22:21:45] Blood and Iron: BCM has neocon tendencies
[06.10.2013 22:21:52] Blood and Iron: I used to be all
[06.10.2013 22:22:06] Blood and Iron: hoorah empire, kill dem iraqis
[06.10.2013 22:22:20] Blood and Iron: before I went lolbertarian
[06.10.2013 22:22:55] Blood and Iron: so yeah, it's not even a case where the state does some good for us
[06.10.2013 22:23:07] Blood and Iron: at least in the Federation, ya'll are anti-fag
[06.10.2013 22:23:34] Blood and Iron: this state has no redeeming features and any gains we make in the Middle East or the Balkans or wherever
[06.10.2013 22:23:52] Blood and Iron: never comes back to us while we wage slave away for the filthy boomer generation
[06.10.2013 22:24:43] Александр Славрос: all the "gains" in the middle east and balkans aren't even worth anything since its all used to sustain the same BS fascists hate in the US to begin with
[06.10.2013 22:29:19] Blood and Iron: yeah, I used to be of the belief that
[06.10.2013 22:29:45] Blood and Iron: what capitalists profit off of in America must be good for us over all
[06.10.2013 22:30:09] Blood and Iron: not even being in the military could bring back such feelings
[06.10.2013 22:30:29] Blood and Iron: jingoism =/= nationalism
[06.10.2013 22:30:46] Blood and Iron: that's where neo-cons and leftists get it all wrong
[06.10.2013 22:31:09] Blood and Iron: neo-cons love jingoism but anarkiddies hate it, but they both think it's the equivalent to nationalism

[07.10.2013 2:38:13] BCM: I don't think I said anything "neocon" or "jingoistic." It was criticism from a fascist (or at least a more statist) position. I never said this state was workable, but obviously a new state is the end-goal here.

Александр Славрос
Александр Славрос
[20.10.2013 12:29:25] Александр Славрос: yeah you guys really do have a totemistic society
[20.10.2013 12:31:00] Александр Славрос: American Totems:
-Dollar
-Flag
-Constitution
-Founding Fathers
-Celebrities
-Presidents
[20.10.2013 12:31:32] Steven F ツ₪: yep
[20.10.2013 12:31:56] Steven F ツ₪: also if you say one negative thing about the military you are spurned
[20.10.2013 12:32:10] Александр Славрос: yeah except vets get shafted
[20.10.2013 12:32:25] Steven F ツ₪: yeh its a double standard
[20.10.2013 12:33:31] Steven F ツ₪: they cheer and clap for them when they are mentioned, we do everything because of the freedom they sacrificed for, then we ship them into mental hospitals or they kill themselves

 

Reaktion Issue #3 Article that had a Futurist theme before the workshop was ever conceived:

Spoiler

iIu5qml.png

cG6UsGD.png

 

That's about it, as far as we had gone with the idea anyway, and since there was no more headway made I'm putting the idea out there for general discussion amongst yank users.

 

Relevant thread: America is Cancer

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AMERICANS, SUPPORT FUTURISM! HELP DESTROY AMERICA!

 

Alex, you lose 6 million tradition points for this post. Tribalism is a lesser feeling and affords no transcendence to a true aristocrat. Fight Club is a cool movie about angst and stuff, in no way is it a real political statement of values. Most white youths in America already went through a fight-club stage, and it ended in a week. Most of this is edgy crap, and exactly what everyone is moving away from, thank god. There is no need for any more political movements or political subcultures because too many of them with the same message exist and they are already all ruined and gay. If the goal is the elimination of all American social and state institutions than the only logical goal to take from this is the formation of new ethno states. Pseudo-politicing implies a maintenance of the core institutions of the old state. An example is Jnoyer's party which philosophizes about laws that can never be implemented, because their economic and moral foundations were long torn from under their feet as a necessary byproduct of collapse, not necessarily any degeneration. Pseudo-ideologizing implies collective anarchy under conditions of remaining cultural influences without a state context. An example is what here jacob tried to do and is attempting to be revived, it's all loud statements based completely on emotion, disguised as an ideology and at that, a traditional one. Im srsly disappoint. Reminds me of why I haven't followed that queer all of you seem to like in over a year.

 

The RPN suffers neither one because its ideology first recognizes the conditions of political entropy as both its context and its goal. There is no pseudo-ideologism but a state of autocratic neutrality on matters of policy; policy is drawn from the local conditions and a syncretist approach is used that incorporates the best and latest in all political movements and does not alienate but strengthens all, at the expense of irrelevant and old ideas recycled from the industrial era such as say, capitalism, socialism and corporatism. That is why the RPN focuses on primarily modern issues, like say ecology and drugs, and takes liberal stances on both while maintaining conservative moral and national ones. None of this in general appeals to any base or primitive emotions, appeals to hubris, muh forgotten generations etc as a formative force for its ideology but takes a mature and balanced approach on actual issues, which isn't at the loss of edgy propaganda or appeal to youth.

 

tl;dr the RPN has a plan and has made space for any actual secessionist movement to work toward political goals. Cultural work should be left to artists and poets, cultural politics even in the 30s with degenerate spergs and shit artists like marianetti but especially today is edgy hipster shit and is really embarrassing. the dialog is already decades ahead of and I quote "RATTATACK TAK TAK< BOOM BOOM BOOM *UGH* *UGH* *UGH*", primitive materialist faggot-jack jewger cultural hipsterism is part of the murka that will be burned, weather it wears a che t-shirt or a tyler durden one. 1/10 idea, would not support, Hail Bonin.

 

Also, one last thing. Entropy and dissolution is not distinct for America, it will apply across the board. America is the primary and pure example of it sure, but our earth is about to purge six and a half billion useless eaters, it will look very different in 50 years. The big nations dependent on a large energy infrastructure ESPECIALLY the BRIC will suffer the most even if they take immediate social, economic and ecological measures; almost as much as America and Japan, which will literally crumble. Europe might very well be spared, but once again there are measures that need to be taken to ensure this, the most practical of which is secession. Seems anti-thetical to nationalism, but pay attention now: GD will never take over the government consittutionally, like Hitler. They have two options, a violent takeover when the poise is perfect, or seccession of their base areas (Kai Murros) and a civil war like Spain in the 30s. In the case of much larger nations with much stronger central governments and a saturation of cultural degeneration and americanism, only the second part is open. This will obviously empower secessionists a lot more than nationalists, but the biggest cash and of course most practical option is syncretist groups that incorporate both like Generation Identity.

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Your obligation to forward the RPN amongst IM yank users had been noted.

Also tfw one of the edgy RPN posters is nazbol and another one is mine.

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I think you're all forgetting the white elephant in the room.

 

What will happen with the "other" Americans when America is gone?

The black ones, the mexicans and so on?

Will we have different small "Americas" fighting over supremacy?

Will it just be racial war and anarchy?

Being as diverse as America is, upon its breakdown, the result is far more unpredictable compared to the also-mentioned Japan, for example.

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I cannot help but think that America is doomed, because American was doomed as a 'nation' from the very beginning, in the contradictions that birthed it. It isn't a people or nation, it is an Ideology, and a decaying one at that. Everybody in American knows it but doesn't know what to replace it with.

 

I don't know the answers, that's one reason why i'm here in the fist place.

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I cannot help but think that America is doomed, because American was doomed as a 'nation' from the very beginning, in the contradictions that birthed it. It isn't a people or nation, it is an Ideology, and a decaying one at that. Everybody in American knows it but doesn't know what to replace it with.

 

I don't know the answers, that's one reason why i'm here in the fist place.

Sorry to double post, but it has occured to me that a kind of Ethno-Nationalism does exist in America, in the very part of America i'm from and culturally identify with; the Old Confederacy of 1860-1865. Yes, we lost. Yes, we are occupied and our children are indoctrinated and propagandized heavily, but it reminds me of what i've read about the Balkan Christian Nations during the Turkocratia, a Nationalist historical narrative of defeat, loss, and persecution that can lead to National rebirth. As we American Neo-Confederates in sympathy say; "the South shall rise again".

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The only way to give true purpose to Futurism is to base it around an ethnic identity, so that on the ruins of America something far greater may be built.

 

Once the rotten system collapses, the core group that founded America will have to look back and rediscover their true identity: that of the Anglo-Saxon; and at that point purify the land of the other races which have been foolishly allowed in. Either they will have to join the greater English-led Germanic identity if racially compatible, or they will be forced out if not. Out of this chaos a true ethno-state will arise, a degenerate republic founded on modernism and multiculturalism will be replaced by an Anglian empire, based on blood and tradition - in otherwords, a real nation.

 

We Anglo-Americans have plenty of precedence for this; just as our ancestors forced out the Britons and carved a new state greater than their old one out of the decadent body of Rome, we will create a new England, greater than the first in every manner, to lead the Germanic nations, just as Russia does the Slavs. We are the Third English Nation; just as the one in Britain is the second and the one in Germany was the first.

 

 

I was talking with Alex about this on Skype last night, in order to fill the void left by the fall of America in a Futurist scenario, and what a Fascist state afterwards must aspire to:

 

[3:58:24 AM] KingTex _: just read your futurism post
[3:58:28 AM] KingTex _: interesting
[3:59:03 AM] Александр Славрос: yeah we kept that thing on a need to know basis, only ever had 6 people other than myself in on it actively though I did tell KU about it as well
[3:59:23 AM] Александр Славрос: but you know
[3:59:25 AM] Александр Славрос: >jacob
[3:59:43 AM] Александр Славрос: after that the group hadn't really done much so I figured the material would be more useful out in the open now
[3:59:52 AM] Александр Славрос: especially after that blackshirts party topic
[4:00:43 AM] KingTex _: the whole comparison with the late roman empire that ab made actually could tie in very well with american anglo-saxonism
[4:00:59 AM] KingTex _: doing exactly what the ancestors did
[4:01:48 AM] Александр Славрос: eh, america was build in the first place like the roman empire in decline, in the sense that it was founded on decay
[4:02:02 AM] KingTex _: Well i meant further back than that
[4:02:28 AM] KingTex _: for the basic core of our recruitment base, i.e. AS/germanic people
[4:03:42 AM | Edited 4:03:55 AM] KingTex _: That america is the late empire and that we have historical precedent to destroy it, as many of our ancestors destroyed rome
[4:05:36 AM] Александр Славрос: I suppose that's a way of interepreting it if you keep it within that scale and don't go into details about how the destruction of rome only gave ressurgence to its best qualities revitilized by the germans and culminated in the holy roman empire, something that can't really happen with US, here you don't have anything worth of ressurgence other than the frontier life as a setting for a new traditional order to be built on
[4:06:02 AM] KingTex _: Well its something i actually thought about
[4:06:23 AM] KingTex _: like "what if" a new germanic empire was built instead of an imitation of rome
[4:06:51 AM] KingTex _: but it will be a new empire of whatever we choose as its identity
[4:08:15 AM] Александр Славрос: well that's what you can build on the ashes of the US
[4:08:45 AM] Александр Славрос: once you get past the ashes part anything is possible! *starry eyed expression*
[4:09:42 AM] KingTex _: Still, having an ethnic basis like anglo-saxon/muh germanicism will make it easier to create that new state
[4:10:17 AM] KingTex _: It might even end up like russia with the slavs, an anglo-saxon empire leading the germanics
[4:10:19 AM] Александр Славрос: well you obviously can't do shit as a fascist without the racial basis
[4:11:00 AM] Александр Славрос: the only point I'm making as far as US is concerned is that you can't do jack shit with the framework of the US as it exists now
[4:11:33 AM] Александр Славрос: so you gotta tear it down and then you can build anew and it cann be that anglo-saxon germanicism if you want
[4:11:44 AM] KingTex _: Exactly
[4:12:06 AM] Александр Славрос: ergo the idea of this tribalist futurist movement
[4:12:28 AM] Александр Славрос: after that its all about the anglo-saxon germanic tribe trampling the rest of the biomass in the former US underfoot
[4:12:52 AM] KingTex _: Which i am more than confident in our ability to do
[4:12:57 AM] KingTex _: Easily, even
[4:14:53 AM] Александр Славрос: you prolly should post this notion in the topic maybe put it down as a proposed direction with the manifesto as well, if you read the logs you can find BCM expressing concerns over how the prop-manifesto was only about anarchy setting and not giving any goals as to the next stage so you fil lthat with your take on how the american futurist movement can be specifically anglosaxongermanic and aiming for an empire afterwards 

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Though i don't agree with every conclusion/concept I do agree with most of it.

 

What was said about the American obsession with the post-apocalyptic is something i had been thinking about and thought of writing about, how it is essentially our American earning for frontier in our cluttered/comfortable world. And the Conclusion that the only way to reclaim the frontier is for modern civilization to be destroyed (by what it doesn't matter).

 

And even with all the horrors of chaos and Anarchy many Americans subconsciously hope for it, this facilitates the Militia and prepper cultures perpetually waiting for overt government tyranny (martial law), or Economic collapse, Armageddon, Peak oil etc.

 

Sorry to double post,

You can edit your own post you know, bottom right.

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Though i don't agree with every conclusion/concept I do agree with most of it.

 

What was said about the American obsession with the post-apocalyptic is something i had been thinking about and thought of writing about, how it is essentially our American earning for frontier in our cluttered/comfortable world. And the Conclusion that the only way to reclaim the frontier is for modern civilization to be destroyed (by what it doesn't matter).

 

And even with all the horrors of chaos and Anarchy many Americans subconsciously hope for it, this facilitates the Militia and prepper cultures perpetually waiting for overt government tyranny (martial law), or Economic collapse, Armageddon, Peak oil etc.

 

You can edit your own post you know, bottom right.

Thanks. I feel good that i'm among articulate people who understand the american obsession with collapse, which is why I want to be careful to not make the issue of america a kind of 'american exceptionalism' in reverse. Frankly, I think it's more important that Europe and the regions ruled by Russia are restored to our civilization because of the fact that an american collapse cannot be avoided.

 

I do agree with Tex  that a future fascist America will be English/Anglo-Saxon/Germanic at it's roots.

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I think you're all forgetting the white elephant in the room.

 

What will happen with the "other" Americans when America is gone?

The black ones, the mexicans and so on?

Will we have different small "Americas" fighting over supremacy?

Will it just be racial war and anarchy?

Being as diverse as America is, upon its breakdown, the result is far more unpredictable compared to the also-mentioned Japan, for example.

 

Niggers in America will literally die off, they are completely unproductive and could not sustain 99% of their communities in a situation where supply exchange is cut. I imagine a few could live for a few years scavenging and raiding until they are wiped out. The 1% will survive will be the small irrelevant minority of niggers that are tolerable in 95% white communities that know to keep their mouths shut, though I suspect a good deal of them will be evicted for practical purposes even without any nationalistic ideas in play.

 

Mexicans are another issue, because they have 1.) a working government, even if it is one that will suffer immense racial, criminal and general entropic strife, can sustain itself agriculturally. 2.) a productive and somewhat ordered society. It is likely they will drive the other races out of Aztlan, and perhaps expand somewhat further. The RPN has taken this into account and considers Mexico an ally for the breakup of the United States government and for the preservation of American white ethno-states. We have no respect for the miscegenated whores that live in South California and New Mexico, and will preserve guarantee whatever borders are established after the white niggers and brown nigger cancel each other out. Most likely the populations of both will be reduced very significantly after a few years of sucking on nature's gun.

 

 

 

 

The only way to give true purpose to Futurism is to base it around an ethnic identity, so that on the ruins of America something far greater may be built.

 

Once the rotten system collapses, the core group that founded America will have to look back and rediscover their true identity: that of the Anglo-Saxon; and at that point purify the land of the other races which have been foolishly allowed in. Either they will have to join the greater English-led Germanic identity if racially compatible, or they will be forced out if not. Out of this chaos a true ethno-state will arise, a degenerate republic founded on modernism and multiculturalism will be replaced by an Anglian empire, based on blood and tradition - in otherwords, a real nation.

 

Read this

 

 

 

Though i don't agree with every conclusion/concept I do agree with most of it.

 

What was said about the American obsession with the post-apocalyptic is something i had been thinking about and thought of writing about, how it is essentially our American earning for frontier in our cluttered/comfortable world. And the Conclusion that the only way to reclaim the frontier is for modern civilization to be destroyed (by what it doesn't matter).

 

And even with all the horrors of chaos and Anarchy many Americans subconsciously hope for it, this facilitates the Militia and prepper cultures perpetually waiting for overt government tyranny (martial law), or Economic collapse, Armageddon, Peak oil etc.

 

No I'm afraid it does matter what, "by failing to prepare you are preparing to fail" -Ben Franklin. There are 5 million white conservative preppers out there, they are a core demographic of only one political party in America.

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Cool, but I believe the end goal should be a single racial state encompassing all the former continental american territories that can be claimed (maybe even Canada). Secession and regionalism should be a means, not the end. If Pablo and Tyrone wanna take their own bites out when America falls, then we can come back and crush them later.

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Cool, but I believe the end goal should be a single racial state encompassing all the former continental american territories that can be claimed (maybe even Canada). Secession and regionalism should be a means, not the end. If Pablo and Tyrone wanna take their own bites out when America falls, then we can come back and crush them later.

 

That is the sort of thinking that landed you in your current predicament. It will be at least 200 years before any major states with the capacity to wage large aggressive war even exist. Again, you don't realize the gravity of the issue. The land and most of the people in it is irrelevant. They are gone. Swish. Gone. Survival for a tiny community of 100 living completely uncertain of what is a horizon away has nothing to do with what some border looked like however many years ago any more than it has to do with who used the dollar and euro back then, or which company produced jellybeans. These will be complete non-issues. New ethnoses, much more political communities and nations tend to take centuries rather than decades to form.

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That is the sort of thinking that landed you in your current predicament. It will be at least 200 years before any major states with the capacity to wage large aggressive war even exist. Again, you don't realize the gravity of the issue. The land and most of the people in it is irrelevant. They are gone. Swish. Gone. Survival for a tiny community of 100 living completely uncertain of what is a horizon away has nothing to do with what some border looked like however many years ago any more than it has to do with who used the dollar and euro back then, or which company produced jellybeans. These will be complete non-issues. New ethnoses, much more political communities and nations tend to take centuries rather than decades to form.

 

It is not a "new" identity, but rather a rediscovery of an old one from prior to this country's founding that simply lies dormant. True, it will take time to rebuild, but this is a very long-term plan - this is not a survival guide for the short term, but rather in idea of what we should do once an organized society is established again. I don't expect statues of Hengest and Horsa appearing in the town square anytime soon, but having an overall plan for the long term will help make a much more powerful nation as time progresses, with a much more solid identity.

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This is the think with you identitarians, you are mystifying the word anglo-saxon. identity dormant-what? What exactly are you implying? fight with a shieldwall? What is it exactly that you want to restore

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This is the think with you identitarians, you are mystifying the word anglo-saxon. identity dormant-what? What exactly are you implying? fight with a shieldwall? What is it exactly that you want to restore

 

This shouldn't be that hard to mentally process; we want to help cure our race of degeneracy and make it powerful, by any means. For a people like the English and especially English-Americans this means sifting through even more merchant lies than usual and a great deal of ignorance about who we are as a people, intentionally spread by jews and their shills, be they of norman, celtic, or english traitor background. That group of Germanic tribes that invaded Roman Britannia and through war united to create a greater nation than they could have known at home will now repeat its act centuries later in another land, and purify itself in the process.

 

I know it sounds like I'm going all 1066 NEVAR 4GET but I just want to work with a model that has reasonable chance of improving the welfare of my people long-term in post-collapse circumstances, based on historical precedent, and one that is quite suited to us at that. We can have our little separate regions at first, but eventually these may coalesce into a larger state, and when they do I want them to do so with a proper racial mentality, to avoid much of the degeneracy that could occur otherwise.

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Well the thing is you are thinking about how to use conditions that you cannot predict. In order to form a unified entity you need to have basic ethno-states first that are healthy and can support its creation. You need to crawl before you walk, and you haven't even been born yet, is what I'm saying. The Novoacadia thing is an extremely optimistic thinking, assuming that it can peacefully secede right before any collapse scenario pans out. There is no way to predict these things, so get the fundamentals down first, and then look at expansion. The fundamentals are hard enough, you and I are literally below zero right now; we have nothing.

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I agree that America is unsalvageable, but I'm not convinced that it never had any redeeming qualities in the first place.

America has the largest economy in the world.

America has the most powerful military in the world.

America was, at one time, an industrial powerhouse. And if patent statistics are any indication, it's still a scientific/intellectual powerhouse.

Somebody was obviously doing something right, even if he or she was also doing a lot of things wrong.

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I agree that America is unsalvageable, but I'm not convinced that it never had any redeeming qualities in the first place.

America has the largest economy in the world.

America has the most powerful military in the world.

America was, at one time, an industrial powerhouse. And if patent statistics are any indication, it's still a scientific/intellectual powerhouse.

Somebody was obviously doing something right, even if he or she was also doing a lot of things wrong.

 

Built by an industrious race, with nearly untold levels of natural resources available. The basic ideology and purpose of its origin was still critically flawed.

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Built by an industrious race, with nearly untold levels of natural resources available. The basic ideology and purpose of its origin was still critically flawed.

Yes it was, but I think that providentially, it had to occur, because we English Culture Americans had to break free from the corrupt British Empire and it's Mercantile Trader ways and find new roots similar to our old ones. Were the days of Alfred the Great any less harder for the Anglo-Saxon/Germanic culture than the crisis today for example?

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Built by an industrious race, with nearly untold levels of natural resources available.

Agreed. Industriousness is a redeeming quality.

The basic ideology and purpose of its origin was still critically flawed.

The ideology was flawed. The purpose - replacing a government that supposedly doesn't suit the needs of the nation with one that supposedly does - is, in principle, no different than what many are advocating here (including myself).

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 is, in principle, no different than what many are advocating here (including myself).

 

You essentially just argued that since in principle we want change then we are on the same page as liberals which is a shit argument. In principle we have the same criticism of capitalism as marxists yet they want to pull everyone down further the line of decay thinking they're making a change for the better and we're pulling everyone up and away from decay in order to make a change for the better.

 

Might as well say that in principle we're no different than faggots that want to replace a government doesn't suit the needs of the nation (and since the majority of people are pro-fag in some nations nowadays that would be exactly the case unless you stipulate that pro-fags cannot be part of the nation but instead constitute its cancerous mass) with one that supposedly does.

 

tl;dr you said something retarded.

 

Going back to your earlier post:

 

 

I agree that America is unsalvageable, but I'm not convinced that it never had any redeeming qualities in the first place.

America has the largest economy in the world.

America has the most powerful military in the world.

America was, at one time, an industrial powerhouse. And if patent statistics are any indication, it's still a scientific/intellectual powerhouse.

Somebody was obviously doing something right, even if he or she was also doing a lot of things wrong.

 

Economy, powerful military, industrial powerhouse - none of these things by themselves or even in sum are redeeming. Imagine an economically prosperous, industrial state with a powerful military that is hedonistic, liberal, degenerate, fag society. How do any of the former redeem the latter from a Fascist viewpoint? They don't, ergo USA had no redeeming qualities from a Fascist viewpoint.

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You essentially just argued that since in principle we want change then we are on the same page as liberals which is a shit argument. In principle we have the same criticism of capitalism as marxists yet they want to pull everyone down further the line of decay thinking they're making a change for the better and we're pulling everyone up and away from decay in order to make a change for the better.

 

Might as well say that in principle we're no different than faggots that want to replace a government doesn't suit the needs of the nation (and since the majority of people are pro-fag in some nations nowadays that would be exactly the case unless you stipulate that pro-fags cannot be part of the nation but instead constitute its cancerous mass) with one that supposedly does.

Being pro-fag isn't suiting the needs of a nation. It is, in my opinion, detrimental to a nation even if such sentiments are currently popular. Same goes for other types of degeneracy. Popular doesn't necessarily equal good. In the case of the American Revolution, it was simply replacing one flawed system with another.

 

Economy, powerful military, industrial powerhouse - none of these things by themselves or even in sum are redeeming. Imagine an economically prosperous, industrial state with a powerful military that is hedonistic, liberal, degenerate, fag society. How do any of the former redeem the latter from a Fascist viewpoint? They don't, ergo USA had no redeeming qualities from a Fascist viewpoint.

Any nation, fascist or otherwise, needs certain qualities in order to be powerful and at least somewhat self-sufficient. I think that industriousness and a drive for intellectual/scientific achievement are positive qualities, even if other aspects of that society are degenerate.

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It was replacing one flawed system with an even worse one.

 

And you still miss my point about the fascist viewpoint, we have standards of a fasicst worlview - liberal does not cut it because that is exactly why nations degenerate into what we oppose, stop trying to justify something unjustifiable by purely material characteristics, otherwise you sound like a typical liberal analyst who doesn't care about worldview but only counts socio-economics as a defining factor.

 

"Well its degenerate and brought about faggotry but at least we had an industry" - excuses for something inexcusable.

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It was replacing one flawed system with an even worse one.

And you still miss my point about the fascist viewpoint, we have standards of a fasicst worlview - liberal does not cut it because that is exactly why nations degenerate into what we oppose, stop trying to justify something unjustifiable by purely material characteristics, otherwise you sound like a typical liberal analyst who doesn't care about worldview but only counts socio-economics as a defining factor.

"Well its degenerate and brought about faggotry but at least we had an industry" - excuses for something inexcusable.

I understand and agree with the standards for a fascist worldview. And, don't get me wrong, I don't believe that economic and military achievements make degeneracy acceptable. I simply believe that industriousness and a drive for intellectual achievement are, in and of themselves, positive things for a nation. Even if one doesn't care about material standards, these qualities make it possible to field an advanced military, cure diseases, create and transport necessary goods, etc. I'd prefer a far-right society that is technologically advanced and civilized to one that isn't, although either would be preferable to where we're heading.

I don't think we should should tolerate degenerates, even if they happen to be brilliant physicists or brave soldiers, for example. But I do admire the specific, individual qualities of brilliance and bravery.

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